A tale of three cities, the battle between Phoenix, Glendale, Tempe on NHL. (Scottsdale: employment, income)

[Bates419]

You might want to take a look at Coyotes attendance when they were downtown. They draw when they are good only. Same as other PHX teams. They had one decent year in Glendale and they went back to crap the following year and have not made the playoffs since. It's easy to use the Glendale excuse but I don't think a bottom 5 team in the League is going to draw big crowds no matter where they are located and while the East Valley will be better the real question is by how much and will it be enough to overcome the financial loss of the Glendale subsidy and keep the team in AZ? And in that I seriously have my doubts.

Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64

No but 2/3 of the city lives in Phoenix or the EV. We'd lose 1/3 and gain 2/3. Driving west to Glendale is the sole reason I don't go. I don't want to spend an hour in rush hour with the sun in my eyes, that's a big reason why I don't live in the WV in the first place.

The Suns have low attendance because they are one of the worst teams in the league, owned by a controversial figure, and are being called out by their own alum publicly.

Even if the Coyotes put out a good product (like they did for a year or two) the location still alienates half the city and like you would think, their attendance was still bottom-rung.

It's Glendale plain and simple, we all know it.

[ibarrio]

Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64

No but 2/3 of the city lives in Phoenix or the EV. We'd lose 1/3 and gain 2/3. Driving west to Glendale is the sole reason I don't go. I don't want to spend an hour in rush hour with the sun in my eyes, that's a big reason why I don't live in the WV in the first place.

The Suns have low attendance because they are one of the worst teams in the league, owned by a controversial figure, and are being called out by their own alum publicly.

Even if the Coyotes put out a good product (like they did for a year or two) the location still alienates half the city and like you would think, their attendance was still bottom-rung.

It's Glendale plain and simple, we all know it.

It's not population but specific demographics within the population. The whole Phoenix area is not really suited to support an NHL team.

Danjouswoodenhand brings up the argument of youth hockey and I counter with the a 10-20 year old argument that youth soccer would make it the most popular sport in the USA and that the mens national teams would be a powerhouse on the world cup circuit. Didn't happen and more play youth soccer than youth hockey.

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by Bates419

You might want to take a look at Coyotes attendance when they were downtown. They draw when they are good only. Same as other PHX teams. They had one decent year in Glendale and they went back to crap the following year and have not made the playoffs since. It's easy to use the Glendale excuse but I don't think a bottom 5 team in the League is going to draw big crowds no matter where they are located and while the East Valley will be better the real question is by how much and will it be enough to overcome the financial loss of the Glendale subsidy and keep the team in AZ? And in that I seriously have my doubts.

They had to rig that arena and obscured the view of 1/3 of everybody who went to the game. That was the point of the move. Also, America West had a seat capacity of 18k, the Coyotes, on average, filled between 15-16k in the seasons they were downtown and that was despite the obstructed views of 6k seats. They were selling 3-4K deficient seats every game. Look at the attendance records in Glendale. The correlation seems pretty clear.

[Bates419]

So less than 2000 more fans when the team was significantly better and in a better location?? I'll give you the obstructed seats but those teams were a massive upgrade from last 10 years. I hope they succeed but I don't see how they generate enough revenue to make the finances work.

Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64

They had to rig that arena and obscured the view of 1/3 of everybody who went to the game. That was the point of the move. Also, America West had a seat capacity of 18k, the Coyotes, on average, filled between 15-16k in the seasons they were downtown and that was despite the obstructed views of 6k seats. They were selling 3-4K deficient seats every game and we're still near capacity.

[Valley Native]

A joint venue with the Suns & Coyotes in the downtown location seems like the best proposal ... however, I still would be against taxpayer money being used for this. There's no reason why the franchises & investors can't pay the bills for the cost of a new arena. I can't understand why there isn't more of an outcry over public money being used for sports when the multi million dollar teams & leagues could easily fund something like this.

[larrymoencurly]

I hope we in <name of city> get the arena because the current Coyotes arena has worked out so well for Glendale.

[Java Jolt]

Originally Posted by ibarrio

It's not population but specific demographics within the population. The whole Phoenix area is not really suited to support an NHL team.

Danjouswoodenhand brings up the argument of youth hockey and I counter with the a 10-20 year old argument that youth soccer would make it the most popular sport in the USA and that the mens national teams would be a powerhouse on the world cup circuit. Didn't happen and more play youth soccer than youth hockey.

I totally agree.

I can't begin to count how many times I've posted that hockey doesn't have a large enough fanbase here, and the location of the NHL venue makes little or no difference.

Soccer has a greater fanbase than hockey and I think a professional soccer team could do well here.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by Java Jolt

I can't begin to count how many times I've posted that hockey doesn't have a large enough fanbase here, and the location of the NHL venue makes little or no difference.

Soccer has a greater fanbase than hockey and I think a professional soccer team could do well here.

Actually, pro hockey does have enough support here ... otherwise, the Coyotes would have never moved here from Canada. Admittedly, the NHL fan base is not huge, but it's there. One of the reasons for the low attendance is the Glendale location, and that's pretty obvious. It was a stupid idea in the first place to build a massive sports/entertainment complex in a location which lacked infrastructure, and was basically nothing more than cotton fields & vacant land (and still is to a point).

I do agree that pro soccer could be a success here, but the big debate once again would likely be the location ... and who would pay for the venue? I still maintain that taxpayers shouldn't be stuck paying for sports, especially when the leagues have enough revenue to finance the arenas/stadiums.

[gbpakrfan]

If Miami, Tampa and LA can have hockey teams, why not here?

Plus, my neighborhood swells in winter when the migration from Canada (and northern states) begins. Several of my neighbors routinely drive to Glendale to watch hockey...but they (and I) would attend many more games with a better location.

[BIG CATS]

Id attend more games if they were downtown, for sure. Driving to Glendale blows, as does the parking there. I swear last time I was there I had to walk a good 1/2 mile. Getting out of there was a nightmare, too.