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That's a good point, but it's also kind of ironic because it seems as though there are more Cubs fans here than DBacks fans simply because of all the transplants from the Chicago area. Every time somebody brings up how great the Cubs are, I respond with: the DBacks won a World Series in 2001, but the Cubs won the World Series well over 100 years ago, and not since. Besides, one of my biggest pet peeves is how these transplants move here and refuse to support Phoenix's teams. More power to them if they can't shake the loyalty to their home teams, but it seems like many of them would be happier if they would just go back where they came from. The only things a lot of them seem to like about Phoenix is the weather & cheaper cost of living, but very little else.
It would likely be less of an issue if the Coyotes or the NHL would pay for the cost of a new stadium themselves without having to lean on the taxpayers. Same with education: privatize it and make those who actually use the schools pay the costs instead of mooching off the taxpayers.
I know people who went to high school and middle school with me who represent Chicago on ALL sports even though they never lived there, only because their family is from there. They say they support the Cubs and the Bears because they are "from there". Yet they were born and raised here. Makes zero sense. Maybe if we didn't have any professional sports but we do... I don't support the sports teams here given my stance on the taxes thing (if you knew me during football season you would hear my endless rant on the Cardinals). When other Arizonans ask me why I don't support the Cardinals I always say, "I do with my taxes as a Glendale resident!"
I could see privatizing education going very bad. A huge difference between education and sports is that education isn't there to make a profit, or at least it shouldn't... We have evidence to prove that education improves quality of life for people especially in the younger stages, it reduces crime rates, etc. Those who are poor (and more likely to get involved in crime) not being able to pay for their kids' education would make things a lot worse. And while they shouldn't have kids if they can't afford them, the truth is they probably will and we can't stop them from having kids. Sports however are there to make a profit. They are there for our entertainment, and that's it.
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Originally Posted by azriverfan.
That is your opinion. Just because you value art galleries does not mean everyone else does. Perhaps they value professional sports and it makes them happy. You are just choosing to support art galleries because you value it more than hockey.
I don't like the concept either but ask Seattle if they regret losing the Sonics and watching that team compete for championships. Now they are desperately trying to recoup an NBA and are willing to spend far more money than it would have taken to retain the Sonics. Nearly every community that played hard ball and lost their team, ultimately gave in and got their team back recognzing how detrimental it was to their community to lose them.
I think the Glendale location hurt the team more than people realize. If you put the Phoenix Suns in Glendale, I think they would also struggle to sell seats and have one of the worst attendance records in the NBA because it's simply not feasible for people to fight traffic during rush hour for 1-2 hours one way just to catch a game.
Maybe the sport teams should work on scheduling games so they are slightly later then, why should I have to invest another ~$225 million of taxes for a stadium because people don't want to spend an hour driving? Our rush hour traffic isn't even bad compared to other places, do you think Los Angeleans don't have problems getting to the Honda Center in Anaheim? Or the SAP center in San Jose for everyone in the Bay Area? Sorry not everything is in YOUR backyard (because honestly the Gila Arena is in my backyard since it's only a few miles away). If you TRULY like going to hockey games then the driving should be worth it to you. If not you can always watch them at home and support them by buying merchandise. Send letters to the Coyotes saying you would like the games to start an hour later so you can make it. Apparently you aren't the only one who feels that way so maybe enough people from the public saying it and they will agree to it. I am still not seeing why I should just support handing out another 225 million to a team that isn't winning the free market. That's not going to change here in Arizona unless they start doing good.
I know people who went to high school and middle school with me who represent Chicago on ALL sports even though they never lived there, only because their family is from there. They say they support the Cubs and the Bears because they are "from there". Yet they were born and raised here. Makes zero sense. Maybe if we didn't have any professional sports but we do... I don't support the sports teams here given my stance on the taxes thing (if you knew me during football season you would hear my endless rant on the Cardinals). When other Arizonans ask me why I don't support the Cardinals I always say, "I do with my taxes as a Glendale resident!"
I could see privatizing education going very bad. A huge difference between education and sports is that education isn't there to make a profit, or at least it shouldn't... We have evidence to prove that education improves quality of life for people especially in the younger stages, it reduces crime rates, etc. Those who are poor (and more likely to get involved in crime) not being able to pay for their kids' education would make things a lot worse. And while they shouldn't have kids if they can't afford them, the truth is they probably will and we can't stop them from having kids. Sports however are there to make a profit. They are there for our entertainment, and that's it.
Maybe the sport teams should work on scheduling games so they are slightly later then, why should I have to invest another ~$225 million of taxes for a stadium because people don't want to spend an hour driving? Our rush hour traffic isn't even bad compared to other places, do you think Los Angeleans don't have problems getting to the Honda Center in Anaheim? Or the SAP center in San Jose for everyone in the Bay Area? Sorry not everything is in YOUR backyard (because honestly the Gila Arena is in my backyard since it's only a few miles away). If you TRULY like going to hockey games then the driving should be worth it to you. If not you can always watch them at home and support them by buying merchandise. Send letters to the Coyotes saying you would like the games to start an hour later so you can make it. Apparently you aren't the only one who feels that way so maybe enough people from the public saying it and they will agree to it. I am still not seeing why I should just support handing out another 225 million to a team that isn't winning the free market. That's not going to change here in Arizona unless they start doing good.
A big part of the scheduling has to do with television, it's not as simple as well do it later, or they would have already. I can't even get to the games on time, being glad it's not LA doesn't comfort me.
As for the Cards, I think your anger is misplaced, if there ever was a successful partnership in this city it's that one. And that is despite your petulant child mayor.
I'd be furious with the nonsense that runs Glendale, they managed to lose money hosting a Super Bowl, a big part of it was because your mayor cried about paying for increased police presence to host large SB parties. So Phoenix gladly jumped on the vacuum and profited like Glendale should've.
Using traffic as a reason doesn't explain why cities like Chicago and Detroit have some of the highest attendance for their NHL games and Phoenix ranks among the lowest.
As someone pointed out upthread, the Blackhawks didn't have sellout crowds until they started winning. Also, going to see the Blackhawks in Chicago is made much easier because of the ease of using the El to get there. There is a stop a very short walk to the arena. I've gone to a game using the El and it was very easy, and fun to see fellow fans on the train before and after. If the Coyotes were relocated downtown, the light rail could serve the same purpose.
Also, as far as the Blackhawks go, they don't play in some far flung area of Chicago like the Coyotes are here. The United Center is near downtown and very easily accessible from all over the Chicagoland area.
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Also, going to see the Blackhawks in Chicago is made much easier because of the ease of using the El to get there. There is a stop a very short walk to the arena. I've gone to a game using the El and it was very easy, and fun to see fellow fans on the train before and after. If the Coyotes were relocated downtown, the light rail could serve the same purpose.
Also, as far as the Blackhawks go, they don't play in some far flung area of Chicago like the Coyotes are here. The United Center is near downtown and very easily accessible from all over the Chicagoland area.
I completely agree, and that's the main issue with the Coyotes: the location. I do tend to believe that the team would have more fans if they would win more games and at least make it to the finals (regardless of their location), but I've been trying to get across for years that the Glendale/Westgate location was such a poor idea to put a sports & entertainment complex. Besides being so far flung, there is virtually no infrastructure around there, and not everybody likes to drive to see a game or a concert. If I wanted to catch a Suns or Diamondbacks game, I could easily avoid the traffic & parking hassles & take the light rail downtown ... much more convenient!
As someone pointed out upthread, the Blackhawks didn't have sellout crowds until they started winning. Also, going to see the Blackhawks in Chicago is made much easier because of the ease of using the El to get there. There is a stop a very short walk to the arena. I've gone to a game using the El and it was very easy, and fun to see fellow fans on the train before and after. If the Coyotes were relocated downtown, the light rail could serve the same purpose.
Also, as far as the Blackhawks go, they don't play in some far flung area of Chicago like the Coyotes are here. The United Center is near downtown and very easily accessible from all over the Chicagoland area.
The Chicago area has several million more people than the Phoenix area and a greater percentage of hockey fans.
Maybe the Blackhawks didn't have sellout crowds before their winning streak but the team still had better attendance than the Coyotes.
If the Coyotes could become winners the attendance would increase but it still wouldn't be enough to keep NHL in Phoenix, the sport is just more popular in the northern tier of states and Canada than it is in the sunbelt.
Just for fun here is average attendance for teams and years:
05/06 Chicago 13,318 Phoenix 15,582
06/07 Chicago 12,727 Phoenix 14,988
I think you get the point that when they were crap so was Chicago attendance. As Chigo got better attendance increased and as Phoenix got worse attendance did the same.
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Originally Posted by Java Jolt
The Chicago area has several million more people than the Phoenix area and a greater percentage of hockey fans.
Maybe the Blackhawks didn't have sellout crowds before their winning streak but the team still had better attendance than the Coyotes.
If the Coyotes could become winners the attendance would increase but it still wouldn't be enough to keep NHL in Phoenix, the sport is just more popular in the northern tier of states and Canada than it is in the sunbelt.
Just for fun here is average attendance for teams and years:
05/06 Chicago 13,318 Phoenix 15,582
06/07 Chicago 12,727 Phoenix 14,988
I think you get the point that when they were crap so was Chicago attendance. As Chigo got better attendance increased and as Phoenix got worse attendance did the same.
Nice stats.
The main thing is just this: no person who lives in the valley wants to take the I-10 west on a weeknight at 5 PM unless they absolutely have to. Say what you want, but the location is the biggest killer of NHL here, period.
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My posts as moderator will be in red.
You might notice that those attendance figures are from Glendale for the Coyotes. While the drive might be a hassle it can be overcome by having a team that wins. There are Westside fans that won't drive to an East side location either. And I doubt they fill the rink in any location while finishing the bottom 4 or 5 every year.
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Originally Posted by ElleTea
Nice stats.
The main thing is just this: no person who lives in the valley wants to take the I-10 west on a weeknight at 5 PM unless they absolutely have to. Say what you want, but the location is the biggest killer of NHL here, period.
And the distance from North Scottsdale is no greater than if the arena was downtown and parking is a lot easier in Glendale. Tempe and mesa area I understand the drive would be easier.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElleTea
Nice stats.
The main thing is just this: no person who lives in the valley wants to take the I-10 west on a weeknight at 5 PM unless they absolutely have to. Say what you want, but the location is the biggest killer of NHL here, period.
You might notice that those attendance figures are from Glendale for the Coyotes. While the drive might be a hassle it can be overcome by having a team that wins. There are Westside fans that won't drive to an East side location either. And I doubt they fill the rink in any location while finishing the bottom 4 or 5 every year.
Nobody is calling for Scottsdale or an East Valley location. Concensus seems to be Downtown right now. Maybe Tempe but unlikely and that has public transit atleast.
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