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I feel like I can agree with you on a lot of things based on posts of yours I've read, but this is not true, and I say that from being part of the community. I think there's a very small pocket of the Valley in which GLB (excluding T... and IQA+) can be open, honest and not on guard. I think it's permissible in most of Phoenix for a man and woman to do whatever is considered socially acceptable, but same-sex couples would most likely get taunted or harassed in most parts of this area, including most of Phoenix proper. Furthermore, I would also say that politicians (whom the people elect) have introduced or passed some rather homophobic legislation, and same-sex couples do indeed face additional challenges in Arizona that heterosexuals don't. Furthermore, sexual orientation and gender identity are NOT protected in housing and employment. The message I personally interpret from Arizona's government is: "while we really would rather you just leave, if you must be here we'll happily take your tax dollars while you shut up and be the second-class citizen you are."
To the T... no, that's blatantly false that Phoenix is friendly, unless you included the T as force of habit. Though Arizona in general has made some progress for LGB, Arizona was one of 11 states to protest transgender rights in schools (in good company with Utah, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Alabama and Mississippi). My company has a strict policy on protecting gender identity, yet despite that we had transgender people working there... somehow, the bathroom brigade decided to confront them and violate company policy by bullying them into using other bathrooms. The answer to me seems simple: if you disagree, you need to find another job that suits your morals. I'll try to dig it up if you want, but I heard recently that Scottsdale was singled out as one of the worst places in America for transgender people.
In short: talk is cheap, but many LGBT people I've met in Phoenix have stated that they intend to relocate in time for reasons I've stated above (and other). I would not at this time consider Phoenix LGBT-friendly. Maybe when it grows up, but not now.
Never once have I faced discrimination for my sexuality in Arizona. Almost all of my friends are straight and all of them are more than okay with the LGBT community. As I have stated in the past, I split my time between Phoenix and LA and while LA is definitely more liberal and accepting as a whole, in my opinion, there really isn't much of a difference in terms of LGBT acceptance between the two metro areas. I find it completely shocking that you know LGBT people who intend to relocate from Phoenix due to the reasons you stated. Granted I'm 22 and most of the people in my circle in PHoenix are around that age, so the discrimination problems you speak of might just be a generational problem.
Never once have I faced discrimination for my sexuality in Arizona. Almost all of my friends are straight and all of them are more than okay with the LGBT community. As I have stated in the past, I split my time between Phoenix and LA and while LA is definitely more liberal and accepting as a whole, in my opinion, there really isn't much of a difference in terms of LGBT acceptance between the two metro areas. I find it completely shocking that you know LGBT people who intend to relocate from Phoenix due to the reasons you stated. Granted I'm 22 and most of the people in my circle in PHoenix are around that age, so the discrimination problems you speak of might just be a generational problem.
This is a great point. There is a huge generational gap in attitudes toward LGBT people depending on what age group you're talking about. It's almost a non-issue to most millennials, while a large portion of people who may only be 10-15-20 years older still hold on to negative views toward the LGBT community. I think as a result, parts of the valley that tend to be home to a higher percentage of younger people will likely have more progressive attitudes on the subject.
This is a great point. There is a huge generational gap in attitudes toward LGBT people depending on what age group you're talking about. It's almost a non-issue to most millennials, while a large portion of people who may only be 10-15-20 years older still hold on to negative views toward the LGBT community. I think as a result, parts of the valley that tend to be home to a higher percentage of younger people will likely have more progressive attitudes on the subject.
I know a lot of people in the LGBT community professionally, we have an impressive amount of LGBT professionals here compared to many other places that is for sure.
But I think an LGBT person would have issues in places like the fringes of Sun City or somewhere with a lot of Boomers.
Furthermore (to put things a little more into perspective), many LGBT coalitions, communities, and establishments, are managed by gay men and that in itself may not be entirely representative of individuals who technically fall under the LGBT (+) umbrella.
A lot of coalitions and establishments are run by an elite, well-connected group of gay men who are even more judgmental than the judgmental people to whom they themselves object. They're happy to have anyone, as long as a person fits their preferred little labels or subcategories. They'll tell you that everyone needs to be more accepting, but simply identifying as gay is not enough if your gay curriculum vitae doesn't read exactly the right way. If you don't fit a stereotype--maybe you shoot guns or you don't think Hillary Clinton is a goddess, well then, they have no use for you, and they will shut you out faster than a neighborhood full of LDS people. Been there, done that, and it's not just Phoenix either. There's even an entire subreddit dedicated to so-called 'bros' (basically just regular guys) of the community who are more or less rejected and labeled as self-haters, simply because they don't check every single box.
It's too bad, really, but that's just how it is. They want very specific LG people who fit into their mold, not LG (and I suppose BTQ+) people as an abstract.
Location: The edge of the world and all of Western civilization
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i'm not a cookie
Never once have I faced discrimination for my sexuality in Arizona. Almost all of my friends are straight and all of them are more than okay with the LGBT community. As I have stated in the past, I split my time between Phoenix and LA and while LA is definitely more liberal and accepting as a whole, in my opinion, there really isn't much of a difference in terms of LGBT acceptance between the two metro areas. I find it completely shocking that you know LGBT people who intend to relocate from Phoenix due to the reasons you stated. Granted I'm 22 and most of the people in my circle in PHoenix are around that age, so the discrimination problems you speak of might just be a generational problem.
Oh? Well, I'd invite you to sit in my office. I had a coworker who is openly gay... and comments would come when he left the room. Is it just possible they're not saying it to your face?
I don't really think that's so shocking when a number of people that said they want to leave are around your age. And I'll let you in on a little secret: you and I are in the same generation, though I was born right at the beginning of it. The part I emboldened and italicized is worth scrutinizing further. Does this mean you stay in a little bubble that's limited to your circle? You won't see things the way they are? You're more optimistic? What? The people I've met want to leave because they don't feel accepted here and, as I also wrote, for other reasons. While I would like to move to a friendlier city, what's motivating me more is a list of other reasons: more urban environment, a place that suits my needs politically, more to do, and at the top of the list, a way to further my career. For LGBT-related issues, I would prefer the increased tolerance, but also dating potential because options are much more limited in Phoenix.
To give you a few examples: I know someone who wants to adopt a child, but this state favors heterosexual couples, and Jan Brewer signed SB 1188 to make it that way. I know people who've had their property vandalized with homophobic slurs. The owners of the job I moved here for (both guys in their mid-20s) routinely made homophobic comments and jokes.
Never once have I faced discrimination for my sexuality in Arizona. Almost all of my friends are straight and all of them are more than okay with the LGBT community. As I have stated in the past, I split my time between Phoenix and LA and while LA is definitely more liberal and accepting as a whole, in my opinion, there really isn't much of a difference in terms of LGBT acceptance between the two metro areas. I find it completely shocking that you know LGBT people who intend to relocate from Phoenix due to the reasons you stated. Granted I'm 22 and most of the people in my circle in PHoenix are around that age, so the discrimination problems you speak of might just be a generational problem.
Arizona, IMO, is much better than almost anywhere else I have lived. I avoid the concentrated LDS or religious conservative areas, not that those would be a problem either. I have friends who live in East Mesa, or Far East Mesa, or Far, Far East Mesa or whatever it's called, and they love it. Having lived in Scottsdale several times, Ahwatukee, and Phoenix proper, I can't say I was ever uncomfortable in any neighborhood. My partner and I were pretty well known in a lot of North Scottsdale establishments at one time, and never once felt out of place. I have lived across the United States, and this is an easy going place.
The inner circle LGBT community, however, seems more exclusive here than elsewhere. It could be because the valley is so spread out, and we don't have the huge established communities of the Bay Area or Chicago (for example).
I might point out that you're only 22. Give it another ten years and your experiences might change, and not always for the better. I know a couple (personally know, not "know of"), who relocated elsewhere because they wanted to get married, and because they did run into flagrant discrimination out here. From their own neighbors, no less.
There are a lot of bad people in this world, and they come in all shapes, colors, and sizes.
I'm directing this to the people that have lived here for a long time, at least 10 years but preferably longer. What do you think about overall quality of life in Phoenix compared to other big cities?
I've lived 38 years in and around Chicago. And 25 years out here. I think the quality of life out here has the Midwest beat 11 ways to Sunday. But, you have to enjoy desert living! Not, "Think you'll like it." Or, "are willing to try it". You have to want it beyond all doubt. Of course, there in lies the problem. The only way you'll know for sure is to spend a few Summers out here.
I tell people, don't look for a house in January. Look when it's 112F in June or July. It will better acclimate you for when you live out here. Another thing I tell them is you have to like the looks of the desert. Not, "accept it's barrenness". Unless you do you will sicken of it in short order. If you are from a colder climate, it can take at least 2 Summers to get used to it. Some never do. Most will leave, or if they stay they'll complain non stop.
In the end only the individual themselves can decide. Everyone likes Sunshine. But when it's beating down on you with 3 digit temperatures to go along with it, for over 4 months out of the year. It can quickly become not so appealing. It's all up to what you want, like, and can tolerate. Everyone's different. I should add that one of the reasons my wife and I left Chicago was because of it's run away liberalism. While you do have a few liberals here, they don't matter, or amount to much.
My opinion: Phoenix has a great quality of life. Everyone's opinions vary; here are mine.
I like:
Not too dense
Tons of outdoor stuff
Great weather
An airport that works
A dedicated effort to build an urban core
Very nice people
Nice roads
Traffic is tolerable (and I have learned ways to avoid it)
Fairly reasonable cost of living, for now
Laid back
Everything is accessible without making a major production out of it
Everything is available within a short distance, no matter where you are
I don't like:
Bad air quality
Mediocre job market
Boom-bust real estate
Too big of an area
Too many people
Growing too fast
Disappearing desert
Odd politics
Far from beaches
For some context, I have lived all over the place. I prefer Phoenix for a lot of reasons. However, it's too big for me. I'd rather live in Flagstaff and suck up the colder temperatures (but still lots of sun). But that would mean A LOT of connecting flights for me, and that's just not practical at this time.
Oh? Well, I'd invite you to sit in my office. I had a coworker who is openly gay... and comments would come when he left the room. Is it just possible they're not saying it to your face?
I don't really think that's so shocking when a number of people that said they want to leave are around your age. And I'll let you in on a little secret: you and I are in the same generation, though I was born right at the beginning of it. The part I emboldened and italicized is worth scrutinizing further. Does this mean you stay in a little bubble that's limited to your circle? You won't see things the way they are? You're more optimistic? What? The people I've met want to leave because they don't feel accepted here and, as I also wrote, for other reasons. While I would like to move to a friendlier city, what's motivating me more is a list of other reasons: more urban environment, a place that suits my needs politically, more to do, and at the top of the list, a way to further my career. For LGBT-related issues, I would prefer the increased tolerance, but also dating potential because options are much more limited in Phoenix.
To give you a few examples: I know someone who wants to adopt a child, but this state favors heterosexual couples, and Jan Brewer signed SB 1188 to make it that way. I know people who've had their property vandalized with homophobic slurs. The owners of the job I moved here for (both guys in their mid-20s) routinely made homophobic comments and jokes.
Man....why are you getting so angry lol. Well, I don't know what to tell you, we clearly have had different experiences here. I still find your experiences of homophobia in Phoenix hard to take in due to my experiences here being basically a 180 of what you described... sorry you have had to go through all of that.
Arizona, IMO, is much better than almost anywhere else I have lived. I avoid the concentrated LDS or religious conservative areas, not that those would be a problem either. I have friends who live in East Mesa, or Far East Mesa, or Far, Far East Mesa or whatever it's called, and they love it. Having lived in Scottsdale several times, Ahwatukee, and Phoenix proper, I can't say I was ever uncomfortable in any neighborhood. My partner and I were pretty well known in a lot of North Scottsdale establishments at one time, and never once felt out of place. I have lived across the United States, and this is an easy going place.
The inner circle LGBT community, however, seems more exclusive here than elsewhere. It could be because the valley is so spread out, and we don't have the huge established communities of the Bay Area or Chicago (for example).
I might point out that you're only 22. Give it another ten years and your experiences might change, and not always for the better. I know a couple (personally know, not "know of"), who relocated elsewhere because they wanted to get married, and because they did run into flagrant discrimination out here. From their own neighbors, no less.
There are a lot of bad people in this world, and they come in all shapes, colors, and sizes.
I definitely agree with what you've said, and the part I have in bold I think is a very valid point.
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