For established Phoenix residents, does Phoenix offer a good quality of life? (Mesa: sales, 2015)
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I'm directing this to the people that have lived here for a long time, at least 10 years but preferably longer. What do you think about overall quality of life in Phoenix compared to other big cities?
Here are my opinions----
I was born and raised in Boston, I loved the city life, culture and diversity but hated the winters and the liberal politics. Shortly after my husband and I married we moved to California for a fresh start and we settled in Sacramento. We immediately liked the weather better than Boston but realized after a few years that the job market wasn't up to par, wages were pretty stagnant but the cost of living was getting more out of reach, and there just isn't much of a big city vibe in Sacramento. For that we had to drive to San Francisco.
We finally had enough of California's ever-expanding liberalism, the high cost of everything, and not much to show for it in the quality of life arena. So we moved to Phoenix last year and we haven't regretted it.
Phoenix seems to have the perfect quality of life----weather is usually warm and sunny all year so that makes for good outdoor recreation, be it biking, dining in a patio setting, enjoying an outdoor concert, or just walking in the park or taking a drive to see the many natural wonders.
Compared to Phoenix, Sacramento seems so dull in comparison. We love to take in a variety of dining cuisines and sporting events. Phoenix has it all.
This might sound odd but I like the lack of organized religion in Phoenix. I'm a devout agnostic and I detest religious hypocrites that proselytize, condemn doubters and non-believers to some evil afterlife, or mix religion with politics. Outside of maybe 1 or 2 I've met who fit this description I find Phoenix is very accepting toward people of non-christian beliefs. If you're not a church-goer, nobody blinks an eye.
I think Phoenix has good job opportunities considering the lower salaries. I'm glad it's not a high-taxing, high-priced area like California or Massachusetts because there's no guarantee of making a higher wage to offset the high costs.
From what I remember about Boston and other big eastern cities, there was a lot more cultural things to go to but only if the weather cooperated. So many times it was either too cold to go outdoors or it was wet, sloppy, or heavy snow.
Now here's my small list of complaints about Phoenix----
Too sprawly. So much driving to work, appointments, and other things that are scattered about and we live in a pretty centralized area.
Bad rush hour traffic. I know other cities have worse traffic congestion but Phoenix's traffic flow seems to be horrifically slow every day between 5 and 9 in the morning and 2 and 6 in the afternoon. Don't people have flexible work schedules or telecommute here or is it mostly a 9 to 5 kind of city? I think more telecommuting, flexible schedules, and less 9 to 5 would help ease the traffic some.
Air-conditioning. We found out our system needs a total replacement and it's not even 12 years old so this is going to be a big chunk of change. Do air-conditioning systems not last very long here because of continuous use or is it because of cheaper parts manufactured these days?
So those are my observations from a newbie. What are your thoughts, those of you that have lived here a good amount of time?
It's fine, it's hot, water sustainability is slowly becoming a problem, it's unapologetically suburban, job market is meh, housing is cheap, business environment is decent, in the winter we get flooded in pasty white people telling you about Ohio and why they hate snow but miss it simultaneously, schools are awful.
You'll spend a lot of time in the car so learn to love your car. Other than that it's not that much different it just looks different.
On the commute question, I own my own practice so I work wherever.
A/C they break because they cook and run for 4 months a year.
I think the tax thing is overplayed, State taxes are low, consumption taxes are high and that trend will be the norm so long as the current gov remains.
It's fine, it's hot, water sustainability is slowly becoming a problem, it's unapologetically suburban, job market is meh, housing is cheap, business environment is decent, in the winter we get flooded in pasty white people telling you about Ohio and why they hate snow but miss it simultaneously, schools are awful.
You'll spend a lot of time in the car so learn to love your car. Other than that it's not that much different it just looks different.
If you think the water issue is becoming a problem here go to California where it has been a problem for a long time.
The lack of comprehensive management combined with bad politics has caused this crisis. Now Californians are under mandatory water restrictions. What kind of quality of life is that? Phoenix might be facing water sustainability issues-it's in a desert after all-but at least it seems to be better managed here.
Are schools any worse here than anywhere else? We don't have children-thank goodness-so we don't have much experience in this area but I've heard the same awful school complaint everywhere I've lived----even in Massachusetts.
I concur about the amount of time spent in the car. It gets to be too much driving because most things are scattered all about and not very centralized.
If you think the water issue is becoming a problem here go to California where it has been a problem for a long time.
The lack of comprehensive management combined with bad politics has caused this crisis. Now Californians are under mandatory water restrictions. What kind of quality of life is that? Phoenix might be facing water sustainability issues-it's in a desert after all-but at least it seems to be better managed here.
Are schools any worse here than anywhere else? We don't have children-thank goodness-so we don't have much experience in this area but I've heard the same awful school complaint everywhere I've lived----even in Massachusetts.
I concur about the amount of time spent in the car. It gets to be too much driving because most things are scattered all about and not very centralized.
I only have experience with public schools in Colorado and some of them are really great.
Water sustainability is a long term problem, while you're right we aren't California (although I don't find solace in it could be worse hypos), we have great water rights but we need the water to fulfill those rights.
If you think the water issue is becoming a problem here go to California where it has been a problem for a long time.
The lack of comprehensive management combined with bad politics has caused this crisis. Now Californians are under mandatory water restrictions. What kind of quality of life is that? Phoenix might be facing water sustainability issues-it's in a desert after all-but at least it seems to be better managed here.
Are schools any worse here than anywhere else? We don't have children-thank goodness-so we don't have much experience in this area but I've heard the same awful school complaint everywhere I've lived----even in Massachusetts.
I concur about the amount of time spent in the car. It gets to be too much driving because most things are scattered all about and not very centralized.
I think water woes are over exaggerated here in AZ. Yes, we are a desert, and I'm all for not wasting water, but there's plenty at this point in the game. Residential use is only a fraction of total use. Farms use the vast majority of water in AZ so farms will take the brunt of the cutbacks if/when they occur. The irony is when housing developments take over existing farms, water use goes down. If water gets to expensive or scarce for farmers, I think they'll just pack up. For long term, desalination/piping in water from other areas will be the solution. Yep, and more expensive water.
I agree with you on schools.....it's a sales/marketing game to me in the end and for politicians to get elected to sell "more spending = better educated" kids. I believe most of the issues are parents/lack thereof support for their kids, not a funding issue. We can have teachers making $1 million a year and if kids aren't motivated because their parents don't care, it makes no difference. The better suburbs in the Phoenix metro(ie, where parents are usually involved with their kids/take interest), the schools are as good as any part of the nation that spends far more or less than us. This is not say any public school is "great" as I think throughout the nation they are mostly average at best so it's all relative I suppose.
yep, lots of ex-Californians live out here for the reasons you explain and beyond. I can certainly understand why, trust me.
As for taxes and such, I agree with JG's point that while property taxes are pretty cheap, here you'll pay taxes on things like water/sewer in a monthly bill instead of yearly like some states, sales tax often is a bit higher, car reg is more expensive than many other states, etc. But I think on balance, it's pretty reasonable tax wise overall.
I think our housing at this point isn't considered "cheap" anymore here. Though back in 2009-12, it was VERY cheap. To some states like CA, sure, we are very cheap but many other states have cheaper or much cheaper housing.
As for traffic, yeah, rush hour can get congested in certain parts, especially with accidents, but we actually fare very well in comparison:
Our major highway/interstate system out here I think is top notch.
While we haven't been here as long as your criteria in your OP (just over 6 years full time) and been visiting for decades before hand(maybe this counts just a bit?), we are very happy here on all counts. Many people have complaints about any place they live in which is understandable as we all have different wants/needs but when seeking out a place to live vs this is where I was born, I think those who make the choice to locate from one place(often the place they were born/have no choice in ending up there) to another place have done their homework and it has on balance what they want/enjoy so I always approach what people like about a place/don't like based on this aspect. If one is a "prisoner" in a sense and feel they can't move because of financial reasons, family situations, etc etc., I think that's often when you'll get more of the bucket list of complaints as they are stuck by their own situation/choice in a place they'd rather not be. For me if any place gets old/the negatives outweigh the positives and I have no obligations that I want to keep, it's time to move on to a place that has more things I want but that's me. And finally, like yourself, if there's something else we want outside of the Phoenix metro now and then, it's not a far drive to many other large cities/areas with lots of variety. Within a 5 hour drive, there's so much variety.
If you want to live in a huge city (5th? in the nation, 13th? in metro) that doesn't really feel like a huge city, then Phoenix is the place. Phoenix feels like, and is, a huge, very modern, clean, relatively safe, suburb, with more places within 10 miles of wherever you live to spend your money than you could ever imagine. What it lacks is any credible urban vibe. Phoenix is no Boston. There are no subways, no downtown employment core, few big corporate HQs, no inner city ghetto, minimal ethnic/segregated neighborhoods. Even the traffic is nothing compared to a normal huge city. I call it the "uncity".
On the other hand, because it is such a massive population center, you can find pretty much anything here from restaurants to car parts to hole in the wall niche hangouts, but you will have to research it and then probably drive a bit to get there.
I've lived here forever. Quality of life? Well, if living in a place where whatever you want is (only) a 15-45 minute drive away then you have found your place. If you like high-rise buildings and concentrated amenities, then look elsewhere. If you like to be able to get away from the city with relative ease and find tranquility in vast open spaces from desert to mountains, again, this is your place.
It's fine, it's hot, water sustainability is slowly becoming a problem, it's unapologetically suburban, job market is meh, housing is cheap, business environment is decent, in the winter we get flooded in pasty white people telling you about Ohio and why they hate snow but miss it simultaneously, schools are awful.
You'll spend a lot of time in the car so learn to love your car. Other than that it's not that much different it just looks different.
On the commute question, I own my own practice so I work wherever.
A/C they break because they cook and run for 4 months a year.
I think the tax thing is overplayed, State taxes are low, consumption taxes are high and that trend will be the norm so long as the current gov remains.
I've been here for well over 10 years now and I don't spend much time in my car. Sounds like you chose a live/work setup that requires a lot of driving, my commute is about 6 minutes or 12 if traffic is bad. Many times I pedal to work because the weather gives me little reason not to. Since were close to downtown Tempe we don't have to go far for a lot of food and entertainment options, were also close enough to the train to take that downtown, so again not much driving.
The taxes are not overplayed, look at the full tax burden, were one of the lowest states in the nation considering all taxes you experience here. Pretty straight forward. Try living in the Northeast for a while.
Now here's my small list of complaints about Phoenix----
Too sprawly. So much driving to work, appointments, and other things that are scattered about and we live in a pretty centralized area.
Bad rush hour traffic. I know other cities have worse traffic congestion but Phoenix's traffic flow seems to be horrifically slow every day between 5 and 9 in the morning and 2 and 6 in the afternoon. Don't people have flexible work schedules or telecommute here or is it mostly a 9 to 5 kind of city? I think more telecommuting, flexible schedules, and less 9 to 5 would help ease the traffic some.
Air-conditioning. We found out our system needs a total replacement and it's not even 12 years old so this is going to be a big chunk of change. Do air-conditioning systems not last very long here because of continuous use or is it because of cheaper parts manufactured these days?
So those are my observations from a newbie. What are your thoughts, those of you that have lived here a good amount of time?
I spent about 5 years in Boston and I've had 10 years total in Phoenix now 8+2. I have to say I initially loved all of the city life Boston had to offer but after a few years I realized it wasn't all that big of a city and I found the suburbs (the only place middle class can really live in Boston) to be extremely boring. I was used to Phoenix where our suburbs contain places like Mill Ave and Old Town Scottsdale, much more interesting than say Natick, Peabody, Waltham, etc.. I also hated the traffic and the lack of easy access to things like hiking and mountain biking trails. Getting around between 3-8pm was just a disaster and don't even get me started on Cape traffic. I find Phoenix traffic to be nothing and I do mean NOTHING compared to Boston. Also, not sure where you've looked for culture here but it's alive and quite well. The valley hosts one of the largest art walks in the country, there's also an awesome collection of art studios all around downtown Phoenix on Roosevelt and Grand Ave is starting to take off now too. As far as museums (Phoenix Art Center, SMOCA, MIM, Museum of the West, Science Center, Museum of the West, Tempe Arts Center, Mesa Arts Center) and performing arts (Ballet Arizona, Broadway, Opera, a zillion small/medium sized concert venues, live music every night of the week in a few locations)
Anyways, just my .02, I think Phoenix offers more bang for it's buck than most people even take the time to realize. I enjoy living in a underrated city that costs less and packs a punch if you actually take the time to look. Overrated cities tend to cost a fortune and in my experience have been more of a let down than what I expected from the hype.
As for the negatives you've listed:
Rush Hour Traffic: I find it it ironic that a Boston native is complaining about traffic here, check the studies, we are the least congested big city in America and far, far less than Boston. You said you're in a central location but I'm not sure what that means. I've heard people on Shea and Tatum tell me they think they're central but I consider that way too far out personally.
A/C: Our system is about 22 years old currently, I'm actually surprised it has lasted this long. I'm not an a/c expert but my take from the service guys is that if you take care of it and do the regular maintenance it should last quite longer than 12 years. If regular maintenance is not done and it's operated poorly then of course things will wear out rather quickly. I'd also suggest getting a few opinions. When we moved into this place the first a/c rep told us to replace the unit and 2 others said that person was full of it and a few hundred dollars worth of work we've been good to go for over 2 years now. Be careful who you trust, everyone wants a big sale.
I spent about 5 years in Boston and I've had 10 years total in Phoenix now 8+2. I have to say I initially loved all of the city life Boston had to offer but after a few years I realized it wasn't all that big of a city and I found the suburbs (the only place middle class can really live in Boston) to be extremely boring. I was used to Phoenix where our suburbs contain places like Mill Ave and Old Town Scottsdale, much more interesting than say Natick, Peabody, Waltham, etc.. I also hated the traffic and the lack of easy access to things like hiking and mountain biking trails. Getting around between 3-8pm was just a disaster and don't even get me started on Cape traffic. I find Phoenix traffic to be nothing and I do mean NOTHING compared to Boston. Also, not sure where you've looked for culture here but it's alive and quite well. The valley hosts one of the largest art walks in the country, there's also an awesome collection of art studios all around downtown Phoenix on Roosevelt and Grand Ave is starting to take off now too. As far as museums (Phoenix Art Center, SMOCA, MIM, Museum of the West, Science Center, Museum of the West, Tempe Arts Center, Mesa Arts Center) and performing arts (Ballet Arizona, Broadway, Opera, a zillion small/medium sized concert venues, live music every night of the week in a few locations)
Anyways, just my .02, I think Phoenix offers more bang for it's buck than most people even take the time to realize. I enjoy living in a underrated city that costs less and packs a punch if you actually take the time to look. Overrated cities tend to cost a fortune and in my experience have been more of a let down than what I expected from the hype.
As for the negatives you've listed:
Rush Hour Traffic: I find it it ironic that a Boston native is complaining about traffic here, check the studies, we are the least congested big city in America and far, far less than Boston. You said you're in a central location but I'm not sure what that means. I've heard people on Shea and Tatum tell me they think they're central but I consider that way too far out personally.
A/C: Our system is about 22 years old currently, I'm actually surprised it has lasted this long. I'm not an a/c expert but my take from the service guys is that if you take care of it and do the regular maintenance it should last quite longer than 12 years. If regular maintenance is not done and it's operated poorly then of course things will wear out rather quickly. I'd also suggest getting a few opinions. When we moved into this place the first a/c rep told us to replace the unit and 2 others said that person was full of it and a few hundred dollars worth of work we've been good to go for over 2 years now. Be careful who you trust, everyone wants a big sale.
I think the difference in Boston traffic and Phoenix traffic is public transportation. Traffic sucks sure, but I'm never in it. Here? Sure we have a system but it's not comprehensive currently.
It's no secret that Phoenix is a car city. Always has been. I use the rail a lot, but it's still in its infancy.
Flexible work hours are part of why the rush periods in the morning and evening last as long as they do. People are working all kinds of schedules, still going to work every day. There are people who work from home regularly and who telecommute occasionally, but it's still a large population out there crowding the freeways. The express and RAPID buses, and the light rail, help, but that still leaves a lot of people on the road.
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), we are very happy here on all counts. Many people have complaints about any place they live in which is understandable as we all have different wants/needs but when seeking out a place to live vs this is where I was born, I think those who make the choice to locate from one place(often the place they were born/have no choice in ending up there) to another place have done their homework and it has on balance what they want/enjoy so I always approach what people like about a place/don't like based on this aspect. If one is a "prisoner" in a sense and feel they can't move because of financial reasons, family situations, etc etc., I think that's often when you'll get more of the bucket list of complaints as they are stuck by their own situation/choice in a place they'd rather not be. For me if any place gets old/the negatives outweigh the positives and I have no obligations that I want to keep, it's time to move on to a place that has more things I want but that's me. And finally, like yourself, if there's something else we want outside of the Phoenix metro now and then, it's not a far drive to many other large cities/areas with lots of variety. Within a 5 hour drive, there's so much variety.
