NY Times article about the rebuilding of downtown Phoenix and its attempt to lure companies from Silicon Valley (fit in, best cities)

[stevek64]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

You are missing the point, and are cherrypicking. Plain and simple, California is expensive because a ton of people want to live there, but there is less housing than there is demand for it. It is the same as inflation, more $ chasing fewer goods. And I already said, people who leave California are usually "settling" when they move to Phoenix or Las Vegas or Texas. I know alot of people from California who complain about AZ every chance they get. A big house and an expensive car aren't the answer to all of lifes problems like a lot of these ex-pats think at first.

Politics has nothing to do with it, as you like to point out, it is more demand than supply plain and simple

And you are contradicting yourself because in your previous posts you say often CA is a dem paradise while AZ is run by a bunch of right wing meanies. If you want to play the politicis card give them credit/they are a big part of the results in a state by your own words, the results speak for themselves what is most cost effective for the middle class and poor to live in. That's the issue I'm bringing up, not if left or right people are moving to AZ. The largely dem run CA is not friendly to middle or the poor. Bad job. Fail. No one can logically argue that point. It's reality.

As for demand in CA, the data show millions leaving with a net loss of 1 million people over a period of time in those links I sent you. You're being simplistic in thinking just demand of people wanting to live there creates high home prices. The bigger issues in CA is in many areas, especially around the coast and in the bigger cities, it's all already fully developed. There's no/little room left to build homes vs the Phoenix metro where there is ample room to expand out so that's a big reason why you see the difference in home prices. Yes, supply and demand, but not for the simplistic reason you state with people wanting to live there as the net gain is negative in CA, in big numbers. The only places in CA with room to build out are places like the inland empire and prices are a bit lower there for that reason. Supply and demand but with more housing available. Still not poor/middle class friendly.

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by stevek64

And you are contradicting yourself because in your previous posts you say often CA is a dem paradise while AZ is run by a bunch of right wing meanies. If you want to play the politicis card give them credit/they are a big part of the results in a state by your own words, the results speak for themselves what is most cost effective for the middle class and poor to live in. That's the issue I'm bringing up, not if left or right people are moving to AZ. The largely dem run CA is not friendly to middle or the poor. Bad job. Fail. No one can logically argue that point. It's reality.

As for demand in CA, the data show millions leaving with a net loss of 1 million people over a period of time in those links I sent you. You're being simplistic in thinking just demand of people wanting to live there creates high home prices. The bigger issues in CA is in many areas, especially around the coast and in the bigger cities, it's all already fully developed. There's no/little room left to build homes vs the Phoenix metro where there is ample room to expand out so that's a big reason why you see the difference in home prices. Yes, supply and demand, but not for the simplistic reason you state with people wanting to live there as the net gain is negative in CA, in big numbers. The only places in CA with room to build out are places like the inland empire and prices are a bit lower there for that reason. Supply and demand but with more housing available. Still not poor/middle class friendly.

I didn't contradict myself, because you are conflating paradise with "affordable". In my opinion, you get what you pay for, just like buying an expensive tool from SnapOn that will last for years vs. a cheap Harbor Freight tool that you will have to constantly replace

[stevek64]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

I didn't contradict myself, because you are conflating paradise with "affordable". In my opinion, you get what you pay for, just like buying an expensive tool from SnapOn that will last for years vs. a cheap Harbor Freight tool that you will have to constantly replace

You need to talk to my friend who graduated from Stanford with a great job at NASA and bought a house in "paradise" near San Jose that looks like a shack that would buy a small beautiful mansion here in the Phoenix metro for the same cost.

In any case, enjoy CA. You have your own mind made up what it is/what it is about and that's all that counts.

[BIG CATS]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

Again, for your last point, go back to my first point. The best and the brightest choose to live in "such a horrible place as California". If you look at most of the people leaving, it is the unskilled, the right wingers like you, and families that want to own a house with a household income of only $40-$60k/yr. The California exodus isn't exactly the best and the brightest. Otherwise, why is Facebook in Palo Alto and why is Google in Mountain View, and why is Apple in Cupertino? If it was so bad, these brain machines would be in Phoenix, or Houston, or Atlanta

Lets see... Toyota, Chevron, Boeing, Campbells Soup, and Schwab have all left CA in the last 1.5 years. Unemployment is around 8% (4th worst in the nation), and the COL is soaring. CA's future is bleak, unless youre an immigrant living off welfare, or wealthy. The middle class has left by the MILLIONS and continues to do so. Its bleeding, and their solution is to keep voting in idiots. Gee, sounds like Chicago. Another place where people are running away from.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

But no where else in the country has the mediterranean climate, that will always give CA value

Coastal CA has great weather much of the time, I will give you that. I'm wondering why you would put weather & climate as a top priority to move anywhere. You can make more money there than here, but that's offset by a much higher cost of living, and it has reached the point where many so called middle class people can't afford to live there anymore. More businesses are moving out of the state than moving in. It's even cost prohibitive for me to vacation in CA these days. If politics and weather are your priorities, so be it. Enjoy CA for what it's worth.

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Coastal CA has great weather much of the time, I will give you that. I'm wondering why you would put weather & climate as a top priority to move anywhere. You can make more money there than here, but that's offset by a much higher cost of living, and it has reached the point where many so called middle class people can't afford to live there anymore. More businesses are moving out of the state than moving in. It's even cost prohibitive for me to vacation in CA these days. If politics and weather are your priorities, so be it. Enjoy CA for what it's worth.

If you've read earlier posts of mine, weather was the main reason I moved here. Living in a sunny dry climate with warm winters is my number 1 priority. I'd rather be a regular Joe in a nice weather location that also has moderate to left politics (my 2nd priority, what I miss about the northeast), than be rich in the south or the midwest/northeast. I have S.A.D., had to take prescription anti-depressants from Nov-Apr every year back in NY to keep me normal, was able to kick them cold turkey when I moved here. And I liked it here, until the politics started turning more and more right wing in the last few years

[stevek64]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

If you've read earlier posts of mine, weather was the main reason I moved here. Living in a sunny dry climate with warm winters is my number 1 priority. I'd rather be a regular Joe in a nice weather location that also has moderate to left politics (my 2nd priority, what I miss about the northeast), than be rich in the south or the midwest/northeast. I have S.A.D., had to take prescription anti-depressants from Nov-Apr every year back in NY to keep me normal, was able to kick them cold turkey when I moved here. And I liked it here, until the politics started turning more and more right wing in the last few years

Reality:

Gallup poll: Arizona not a Republican state - ABC15 Arizona

And why not consider more liberal areas like Tucson? Flagstaff? Tempe?

I think you're drawing a little to much from the black/white well and not enough gray.

If it's ultimately the nanny state you want, I would agree....the Phoenix metro isn't your place.

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by stevek64

Reality:

Gallup poll: Arizona not a Republican state - ABC15 Arizona

And why not consider more liberal areas like Tucson? Flagstaff? Tempe?

I think you're drawing a little to much from the black/white well and not enough gray.

Well, let me tell you, when Ducey won the governor's race against Fred DuVal, when Tom Horne became AG, and when Joe Arpaio keeps on getting re-elected, it paints a much much different picture

[AZSunDevil83]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

Well, let me tell you, when Ducey won the governor's race against Fred DuVal, when Tom Horne became AG, and when Joe Arpaio keeps on getting re-elected, it paints a much much different picture

Arpaio is on his way out...if we are lucky, he will rot and die in jail once criminal contempt charges are recommended

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

Well, let me tell you, when Ducey won the governor's race against Fred DuVal, when Tom Horne became AG, and when Joe Arpaio keeps on getting re-elected, it paints a much much different picture

Ducey is a crook, but he's not Brewer. He's publicly pretty mild. Horne isn't the AG anymore.

DuVal was as moderate a Democrat as they come.