Phoenix might close hiking trails on extremely hot days. (Tucson: job market, tax)

[adriver]

The Official Stupid Motorist Law
Arizona Revised Statutes, Title 28, Chapter 910 is the associated statute. I will quote a portion of it here:
A driver of a vehicle who drives the vehicle on a public street or highway that is temporarily covered by a rise in water level, including groundwater or overflow of water, and that is barricaded because of flooding is liable for the expenses of any emergency response that is required to remove ... the driver or any passenger in the vehicle that becomes inoperable on the public street or highway or the vehicle ... or both.

All this law says is if you go around a sign that says "road closed" and need rescue, its on you. I think there should be something similar when its above 110. Possibly if you don't have water or not, a cellphone or not, but it certainly shouldn't be closed.

HOWEVER, My biggest concern is not for the person who doesn't know there limits; but for the rescuers, who have to go up taking all that gear and first aid to bring someone back down. That after that exertion they need to do there jobs as quickly (and safely) as possible after just working to dangerous levels themselves. That is a lot more exhausting then just walking up the hill carrying only some water.

I know we had that lady that died with the doctor on the trail, but I know this year and the two previous years, (not sure how many others), but the person who died up there was a tourist and I'm pretty sure every time it was someone middle-aged from England. They are not used to the heat, and how dehydrated it makes you without realizing it. They probably didn't realize you need to acclimatize. They are not here for long, and want to enjoy the sunshine and the mountains that they don't usually have.

Since this thread was started, they did ban pets when its over 110, on a couple of trails. I think that's great and they need to expand that to all trails.

[Suzatlarge]

Originally Posted by hawkbiz

In my opinion, The real issue here is protecting the rescuers who put their lives in danger to try to save these people. How about just say on 110+ days it's completely hike at your own risk...no rescues will be attempted? I'm good with that.

^^^This is the issue that concerns me (we have the flip side of it - numbskulls in the mountains in winter . . . ).

Yes, the rescue teams are doing their job. But it's one thing to do it when it's 90 degrees, and another when it's 110+. Sitting comfortably at your computer and talking about the "nanny state" and some impersonal "government" - hey, that's your right. Wouldn't dream of muzzling you if I even could.

But. If you have a shred of common sense or common human decency, spare a thought, and perhaps some respect, for the human beings who have to hike in - lugging equipment - to rescue fools who got into trouble when they decided to do totally unnecessary hikes in ridiculously hot weather. Those crew members are also in physical danger from that heat.

Thank you.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by stevek64

I don't agree with it. Sounds like AZ turning into more of a nanny state if such a thing goes through.

I wasn't in favor of this concept either, and I'm glad it was voted down. Closing hiking trails won't necessarily stop certain morons from ignoring the "closed due to excessive heat" signs and crossing barricades. We already have excessive heat warnings every time the temperatures soar to 110 or higher. Shouldn't that be enough of an indicator to say: it's too damn hot to hike?!

Originally Posted by hawkbiz

In my opinion, The real issue here is protecting the rescuers who put their lives in danger to try to save these people. How about just say on 110+ days it's completely hike at your own risk...no rescues will be attempted? I'm good with that.

Sounds good to me. I've proposed having a Stupid Hiker Law, except have a special clause in it which states that you hike at your own risk, and no rescues will be attempted. I don't have any sympathy at all for these inexperienced idiots (or those who THINK they're athletic & experienced) who hike in excessively hot weather, get dehydrated, become heat exhausted, and risk death. Too bad! It's survival of the fittest ... we don't need to be wasting tax money on saving every moron from themselves. As far as I'm concerned, if certain people are too stupid or unprepared, I don't give a damn about them! The coyotes can have an extra meal for all I care. Good population control: weed out the ignorant!

Originally Posted by BIG CATS

Im with you 100%. Im the one who would rather hike than drive far, pay to park, pay entry fees, just to be surrounded by rude people and crowds. Im all about hiking and getting away from the daily grind to enjoy my peace and quiet that mountaintops can offer.

Fine and dandy, but just don't expect our tax money to save your overheated butt should you be in need of a rescue. Aren't there better things to do in the summer besides hiking on the trails?!

Originally Posted by Java Jolt

It's retarded when one of the biggest attractions in such a large city is hiking trails, and it's even more retarded to hike in extreme heat.

I completely agree with you here. Phoenix has enough big city amenities, but for some odd reason there are people who would rather kill themselves on a hiking trail than take in more of the so called big city stuff. Besides, I never understood the thrill of hiking one of the brown hills in or around Phoenix when there are so many cooler, prettier, shadier trails throughout Arizona where a person can truly be amongst nature without risking heat related illnesses or death. I'd much rather hike in the White Mountains or northern AZ than anywhere around Phoenix.

[cactusland]

There should absolutely be a stupid hiker law. If you go out when it is 115 and decide to hike around the trails with no water and need a rescue...no one should be paying for your rescue but you. I don't agree with closing them as people should be free to make their own mistakes, but the general public shouldn't be paying for that rescue either.

[adriver]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

I completely agree with you here. Phoenix has enough big city amenities, but for some odd reason there are people who would rather kill themselves on a hiking trail than take in more of the so called big city stuff. Besides, I never understood the thrill of hiking one of the brown hills in or around Phoenix when there are so many cooler, prettier, shadier trails throughout Arizona where a person can truly be amongst nature without risking heat related illnesses or death. I'd much rather hike in the White Mountains or northern AZ than anywhere around Phoenix.

Id rather go hike the Andes. Can't do it on a lunch break.

[mjd2k]

[quote=RenW;44615076 , but if the lands are owned by the government (local or federal) they do have a right to close trails in extreme conditions. (Heat, cold, flood, etc...)[/QUOTE]

This is a good point.

This isn't about stopping people from hiking. They can hike other places,if they want.

To me it's about not allowing hikes in certain locations, in extreme conditions, that are likely to end badly.

My first reaction is that I don't need sto be told when it safe to hike, but I get the resource and time issue. If a hike was only 1/2 hour, then why not? But most hikes aren't

Maybe the authorities are trying to be too "humanitarian" in their process. Make it all about dollars and efficient use of services.

Roads get closed in snowy regions all the time. Why? Because it wastes huge resources to deal with rescues. People seem to understand that rationale.

[Garson]

As the dumbing down of society continues....it may be necessary to close trails in extreme weather.

[BIG CATS]

Originally Posted by Java Jolt

It's retarded when one of the biggest attractions in such a large city is hiking trails, and it's even more retarded to hike in extreme heat.

I mean seriously, is Phoenix lacking that much in big-city things to do?

Waterparks have chlorinated water like most swimming pools do, so most of that disgusting bodily bacteria is washed away and a non-issue.

I'd rather be in a fun waterpark knowing I'm not risking heat stroke than hiking on a hot dirty trail with a bunch of sweaty bodies pushing their limits to the extreme.

Hot? Yes. Dirty? Not really. A "bunch of sweaty bodies"? Maybe on Camelback, during winter months. Summer? You hardly see a soul.

Id rather be on a mountain, looking out at God's great Earth, alone, listening to music, soaking in the moment, knowing I didnt spend a dime to be surrounded by strangers all waiting in line for 15 minutes, just to spend 10 seconds to go down a water slide. Its also nice to not be surrounded by screaming kids.

You ask if Phoenix is lacking in big-city things to do? I ask why you would go to a waterpark that Anywhere, Anytown, USA has. Taking advantage of PHX's immense and excellent mountain system/parks is FAR more fun than a water park to me.

[ajonesaz]

Originally Posted by stevek64

I don't agree with it. Sounds like AZ turning into more of a nanny state if such a thing goes through.

What's next, shut down every road that floods a bit because some individuals can't figure out not to drive in water that may be too deep? Of course not. Instead, we have a stupid motorist law. Charge those with a rescue if needed when they make a decision that doesn't end well. Don't let the lowest denominator ruin the choice of others because of the very few that die on the mountain hiking on hot days. The vast majority don't die/have no problems hiking in such weather.

So to me the solution is simple and create a stupid hiker law like we have in the stupid motorist law. That maintains free choice, drops the nanny state nonsense and lets adults make adult decisions since they should know the risks like so many other decisions each of us make everyday in the game of life.

Next up.....close a national park, state park, etc on days when too many wild animals appear because some people might get killed when they do brilliant things like get close to the animals and take pictures of them, put Jr on the back of a bison for that once in a lifetime photo, etc.

Actually for the stupid motorist law they have to drive around a "closed" street barricade before it becomes in effect.

[BIG CATS]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Fine and dandy, but just don't expect our tax money to save your overheated butt should you be in need of a rescue. Aren't there better things to do in the summer besides hiking on the trails?!

I only hike up to 105 degrees, any temps over that and my happy butt stays indoors. I know the signs of heat exhaustion, and I carry plenty of water with me (more than what is adequate). For those of us who are avid outdoorsmen, we enjoy hiking and enjoying the "ugly brown hills" you speak of such disgust with. Its a blessing to have the mountains right here, and we take advantage of what the trails have to offer. You scream "dont expect my tax money to save you", even though I work my ARSE off and have paid more than enough taxes over the last 25+ years? I bet youre the type of person who is completely ok with the fact that your taxes pay for illegals and their anti-assimilating selves, right? I bet your cool knowing your taxes pay for those unwilling to work for a living, too. Am I right?