Downtown Minneapolis vs. Downtown Phoenix (Tucson, Taylor: leasing, insurance, to buy)

[Duluth07]

Hey everyone. I posted a couple times before, and I wanted to be more specific this time. I am interested in moving to Arizona, mainly downtown Phoenix because I do not own a car and I would like to have a simple life where I can easily access places like work, the Y, public transit, etc. I suppose this would be tough to answer unless you've been in downtown Minneapolis, where everything is enclosed via skywalks, so you never have to brave the elements outside in winter, however, the amount of snobbery and wealth that has moved into downtown pretty much priced people like myself who earn a modest living out. I do want to live in a fun place where a diversity of people are (I'm gay - so I need to be in an accepting area), while Minneapolis had a lot of progressive type people, they were also very elitist and self-important which turned me off real quick.

Can I expect to find some sense of excitement in Phoenix that, unlike Minneapolis, hasn't been overpriced, overdone, marketed towards rich people, and I can find normal places to shop where people who don't make tons of money can afford? Thanks for your input!!

j.

[Dangerous Dave]

Originally Posted by Duluth07

Hey everyone. I posted a couple times before, and I wanted to be more specific this time. I am interested in moving to Arizona, mainly downtown Phoenix because I do not own a car and I would like to have a simple life where I can easily access places like work, the Y, public transit, etc. I suppose this would be tough to answer unless you've been in downtown Minneapolis, where everything is enclosed via skywalks, so you never have to brave the elements outside in winter, however, the amount of snobbery and wealth that has moved into downtown pretty much priced people like myself who earn a modest living out. I do want to live in a fun place where a diversity of people are (I'm gay - so I need to be in an accepting area), while Minneapolis had a lot of progressive type people, they were also very elitist and self-important which turned me off real quick.

Can I expect to find some sense of excitement in Phoenix that, unlike Minneapolis, hasn't been overpriced, overdone, marketed towards rich people, and I can find normal places to shop where people who don't make tons of money can afford? Thanks for your input!!

j.

Any downtown area where you'd actually want to live is going to be overpriced. As far as I know, PHX isn't too bad for gays, although someone who lives there may point you towards the more friendly areas. Tucson may be a good match for you.

If you're just trying to get away from the cold, you may also try the Palm Springs area.

[alterego]

Minneapolis has a GREAT downtown! I don't think you will like downtown Phoenix. There is not enough there. Please look in the Phoenix forum for topics specifically about downtown Phoenix. There is a lot of good information there.

[Magnum Mike]

Downtown Phoenix is still work in progress, and if you're going to be working in the downtown area and don't own a car, you'll be okay, but if you have to commute away from downtown, then you'd better get a car, unless you like waiting for busses during the day in the summer, when temperatures can get above 110 degrees outside in July.

A light rail system is currently under construction, and when it starts running sometime in December of this year, it'll benefit mainly east valley residents, who work downtown. It will eventually cover most of the valley, but that's probably years down the road.

[KoryO]

Sorry, but walking around in Phoenix to work and shop just isn't gonna happen. There are no grocery stores downtown. You can take a bus, but only if you don't want to buy frozen food because it will thaw by the time you get home. If you want to take a bus, it will take at least one hour, maybe two, to get anywhere. The Phoenix metro area is huge.....you can literally drive for two hours and still not get out into the desert.

If you are looking for a gay-friendly area, try around Central and Camelback. There are a few gay owned businesses (look for the rainbow flags). They would probably be your best bet to get linked up to the gay community.

Best of luck to you!

[Finger Laker]

I can't comment on the gay aspect, but if you are coming to Phoenix - buy a car and quick

I lived up in Brooklyn Park and was able to get bye up there without a car - I absolutely love downtown MPLS - skyway shops, farmers market, entertainment ..... a pretty vibrant down town

I was able to take a bus in and out of the city without much difficulty and once downtown it was simple to move around and this was before light rail

Phoenix is not this - it may improve at some time, but it's not it right now .......... jobs are not centralized here at all and you will be limiting yourself if you are just searching downtown (if you have a job in hand it will be OK)

public transport is a nightmare - i moved down without a car and mixed my first 6 months between the buses and car pooling with my wife (gf at the time) ..... what was a 30-40 minute drive was usually a 2 hr bus ride ........ you can throw your schedule out the window as well

the metro phoenix area is much larger than mpls - it's not impossible to drive the same road a solid 45 miles and leave developed area

living in downtown phoenix it will be harder to get easy access to groceries, movies, a wider range of bars restaurants and any type of mall shops

there are a lot of good values on cars out here - but it's pretty much a necessary expense and you can expect a much higher rate of insurance & registration

[ArizonaBear]

Originally Posted by Dangerous Dave

Any downtown area where you'd actually want to live is going to be overpriced. As far as I know, PHX isn't too bad for gays, although someone who lives there may point you towards the more friendly areas. Tucson may be a good match for you.

If you're just trying to get away from the cold, you may also try the Palm Springs area.

Several Gay friends of mine (I am Straight) flat told me that Tucson is not exactly a Gay mecca despite that city's alleged 'liberal' reputation.

As for Phx; there are scads of Gay oriented businesses, clubs, etc. within about a 1-2 mile radius of 7th St and Camelback.

That is an older enclave in Phx and it actually has decent public transportation plus too the light rail is going in as we speak.

[sweettearose]

Originally Posted by KoryO

Sorry, but walking around in Phoenix to work and shop just isn't gonna happen. There are no grocery stores downtown. You can take a bus, but only if you don't want to buy frozen food because it will thaw by the time you get home. If you want to take a bus, it will take at least one hour, maybe two, to get anywhere. The Phoenix metro area is huge.....you can literally drive for two hours and still not get out into the desert.

If you are looking for a gay-friendly area, try around Central and Camelback. There are a few gay owned businesses (look for the rainbow flags). They would probably be your best bet to get linked up to the gay community.

Best of luck to you!

I would agree with this. Downtown Phoenix has a long way to go. I would say it's another 20 years at least before downtown will look respectable. They finally got their act together by focusing on putting a student population there whereas before they thought that building residential living will draw people there. It's the chicen and egg story. They thought by putting people there first, then jobs would follow. But why would people live there if there are no jobs? And why would companies put up restaurants and shopping there if people don't live there? It was truly bad planning and strategy by the city. Putting schools first is different. Students are required to attend schools or universities so they will move there regardless of the surrounding ammenities. That will then attract surrounding businesses to cater to that population: restaurants, grocery stores, bars, shopping. As the area builds up, companies will then consider leasing office space in downtown as it has a viable atmosphere.

[synapse]

> Can I expect to find some sense of excitement in Phoenix that, unlike Minneapolis, hasn't been overpriced, overdone,
> marketed towards rich people, and I can find normal places to shop where people who don't make tons of money can
> afford? Thanks for your input!!

Unfortunately, Phoenix isn't there yet. Its downtown is years behind downtowns like Minneapolis. The closest downtown I can think of that's similar to Minneapolis is Denver - like Minneapolis, it has its equivalent of the Nicolet Mall (the 16th St. Mall) and a light rail system.

Phoenix is still very car-driven. They've started to realize that's a problem, and now light rail is coming into play, and more and more businesses and restaurants are moving downtown. It probably will have some similarities to downtowns like Denver eventually, but I'd give it twenty years. Right now, you can work and live downtown, but there's not a whole lot to do yet.

Phoenix is relatively affordable, however, and there is an area called the Willow district that has a gay-friendly atmosphere. It's just not the same level of activity, people walking around, etc. that Minneapolis has, which is unfortunate, but again, give it a few years.

[HX_Guy]

I wonder how many people that comment on downtown actually spend any time there?

"living in downtown phoenix it will be harder to get easy access to groceries, movies, a wider range of bars restaurants and any type of mall shops"

There is an AMC 24 right downtown at the Arizona Center. There are several restaurants in the downtown area. True that groceries aren't within walking distance, they are about 1 mile from the core of downtown, but really, is that any different then the suburbs? Unless you live close to a major intersection...you might be 1-3 miles from a grocery store as well. The mall shops, that's the most true about what was said...aside from a couple like Sunglass Hut and Ann Taylor at the AZ Center, there isn't much there aside from Hooters, Starbucks, Pizzeria Uno and a couple other restaurants.
There are plans for an AJs grocery store (plus many other "mall" retailers and restaurants) to open in the core of downtown plus the Downtown Farmer's Market is expanding into a brick and mortar store this summer and will be open daily, instead of how their outdoor market is open only on Saturdays and Wednesdays.

The point I'm trying to make is that downtown has either the same or better amenities then living in the suburbs. I live in the suburbs now (if I wasnt tied down by business, I would live downtown in a heartbeat) and there isn't anything I can do without a car.
You can't say that about downtown. If I did live downtown, I could certainly walk to get something to eat, or see a movie, or go to a club. The variety may not be the biggest yet, but it's still much greater then the variety you would have in the suburbs without sitting in a car first.

We all know that for downtown to be successful, we need to have people living there. Retailers and restaurants are not going to open unless there is demand, and demand comes from people. If everyone who comes on here and asks "How is downtown" and we all tell them to stay away...how is the problem ever going to get fixed?