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Location: Escaped SoCal for Freedom in AZ!!!! LOVE IT!
394 posts, read 345,252 times
Reputation: 502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Potential_Landlord
15 years ago California had no top 5 public company at all. Today they have Alphabet/Google, FB and Apple. All vying for the no 1 worldwide spot. Where is Arizona here?
Of course, you can outsource some low value-add operations to those vying for the race to the bottom in terms of wages and benefits paid for their employees. I don't understand why we want to look like Somalia rather than California. Is this really all we aspire to? Only to spite the hated "liberals"?
I'm always amused by people that don't livee in CA and have no idea about the issues here - saying it should be mimicked.
For the good of AZ, all that think CA is doing well please just move. Read the damn article and realize part of the MANY reasons CA is in the tank.
I've lived in CA all my life and can tell you first hand it has gone to poop over the last two decades. If you want to be like CA, just move there/here.. I'm getting the hell out of here and have chosen Phx. I will do what I can not to let AZ go the way CA did - and I trust there are enough sensible people doing the same that AZ will be fine.
I'm always amused by people that don't livee in CA and have no idea about the issues here - saying it should be mimicked.
For the good of AZ, all that think CA is doing well please just move. Read the damn article and realize part of the MANY reasons CA is in the tank.
I've lived in CA all my life and can tell you first hand it has gone to poop over the last two decades. If you want to be like CA, just move there/here.. I'm getting the hell out of here and have chosen Phx. I will do what I can not to let AZ go the way CA did - and I trust there are enough sensible people doing the same that AZ will be fine.
California has been subsidizing Arizona for decades with federal taxes. California is a net payer of federal taxes while Arizona is a net moocher of federal taxes. Decent people would at least be grateful for California to subsidize our lifestyle in Arizona. Las, I do not see them in this thread.
Citation?
Arizona per capita tax revenue is low because we have more native americans living here than any other state. They don't pay taxes but get a lot of federal money. Couple that with close to 50% of Arizona being federally controlled land, the mass amount of national forest and national parks and lets not forget the federal spending on Border Patrol here. People love throwing that argument out because they think it is related to food stamps and the poor - the state pays for food stamps, not the feds.
These kind of articles are misleading, to say the least. For every single company "leaving" CA, there are 100s being formed. Bay area leads the nation (and the world) in venture capital investment, having a share of over 25% in global venture capital investment, whereas Phoenix share stands at 0.8%.
IMO, this is due to the difference in culture of innovation which is severely lacking here. All we talk is to leech companies off from elsewhere rather than fostering innovation and entrepreneurship. Even if we succeed in having some headquarters relocate here, it is rare that R&D center of any company started or relocated here. The high paying tech jobs, to the most part, are R&D related, rather than back office work that we seem to excel in.
These kind of articles are misleading, to say the least. For every single company "leaving" CA, there are 100s being formed. Bay area leads the nation (and the world) in venture capital investment, having a share of over 25% in global venture capital investment, whereas Phoenix share stands at 0.8%.
IMO, this is due to the difference in culture of innovation which is severely lacking here. All we talk is to leech companies off from elsewhere rather than fostering innovation and entrepreneurship. Even if we succeed in having some headquarters relocate here, it is rare that R&D center of any company started or relocated here. The high paying tech jobs, to the most part, are R&D related, rather than back office work that we seem to excel in.
I think you're missing the point of the article. CA is bleeding jobs to many other major cities and Phoenix is one of the main cities grabbing these jobs. As the article mentions, it's a cost issue for many companies. And frankly many people, even highly educated who have decent paying jobs there(I know more than a few), can't have a decent quality of life anymore in CA given the cost of living. As for the bay area, you can have venture capital out the windows but for workers, this is what many are moving away from/don't consider quality of life:
http://www.mercurynews.com/business/...t-middle-class
"Many displaced tenants spend half a year or more searching for new apartments, she said. Of the approximately 4,900 households with incomes between $50,000 and $160,000 that the agency serves, about 370 are living in their vehicles, mostly in Mountain View and Palo Alto."
"In pricey Bay Area, some turn to vans for cheap living quarters"
So without workers wanting to live in a van, homeless, or live in a shoe box rental place/a barely basic home that takes most of their salary in mortgage expenses see areas like Phoenix to take advantage of the mess CA is for many well educated workers who can't/don't want to afford the mess it has become in many areas. Case and point on this very recent study that fares very well for the Phoenix metro:
"San Francisco remains the nation’s leading tech market, but the competition for talent is getting tougher as more highly skilled tech workers—especially millennials—are flocking to cities where the cost of living is lower and tech jobs are plentiful, according to CBRE Group, Inc.’s annual Research report, “Scoring Tech Talent,” which ranks 50 U.S. and Canadian markets according to their ability to attract and grow tech talent."
"In their quest for highly skilled talent and for lower cost of doing business, both new and expanding companies are establishing footprints in these more affordable markets—including Nashville, Charlotte, Tampa, Seattle and Phoenix—leading to a rise in demand for office space and a decrease in office vacancy."
And addition to the above article, recent article after article, regardless if the jobs are from CA or not, show us stacked up very well to bring in young educated people into the metro:
These kind of articles are misleading, to say the least. For every single company "leaving" CA, there are 100s being formed. Bay area leads the nation (and the world) in venture capital investment, having a share of over 25% in global venture capital investment, whereas Phoenix share stands at 0.8%.
IMO, this is due to the difference in culture of innovation which is severely lacking here. All we talk is to leech companies off from elsewhere rather than fostering innovation and entrepreneurship. Even if we succeed in having some headquarters relocate here, it is rare that R&D center of any company started or relocated here. The high paying tech jobs, to the most part, are R&D related, rather than back office work that we seem to excel in.
It's unfortunate, but CA is sucking the life out of businesses as well as workers & residents thanks to their heavy-handed overstepping in just about every area known to every industry. Those newly formed businesses are in for major wake up calls, thanks to careless & ignorant state, county & local government practices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64
I think you're missing the point of the article. CA is bleeding jobs to many other major cities and Phoenix is one of the main cities grabbing these jobs. As the article mentions, it's a cost issue for many companies. And frankly many people, even highly educated who have decent paying jobs there(I know more than a few), can't have a decent quality of life anymore in CA given the cost of living. As for the bay area, you can have venture capital out the windows but for workers, this is what many are moving away from/don't consider quality of life:
http://www.mercurynews.com/business/...t-middle-class
"Many displaced tenants spend half a year or more searching for new apartments, she said. Of the approximately 4,900 households with incomes between $50,000 and $160,000 that the agency serves, about 370 are living in their vehicles, mostly in Mountain View and Palo Alto."
"In pricey Bay Area, some turn to vans for cheap living quarters"
So without workers wanting to live in a van, homeless, or live in a shoe box rental place/a barely basic home that takes most of their salary in mortgage expenses see areas like Phoenix to take advantage of the mess CA is for many well educated workers who can't/don't want to afford the mess it has become in many areas. Case and point on this very recent study that fares very well for the Phoenix metro:
"San Francisco remains the nation’s leading tech market, but the competition for talent is getting tougher as more highly skilled tech workers—especially millennials—are flocking to cities where the cost of living is lower and tech jobs are plentiful, according to CBRE Group, Inc.’s annual Research report, “Scoring Tech Talent,” which ranks 50 U.S. and Canadian markets according to their ability to attract and grow tech talent."
"In their quest for highly skilled talent and for lower cost of doing business, both new and expanding companies are establishing footprints in these more affordable markets—including Nashville, Charlotte, Tampa, Seattle and Phoenix—leading to a rise in demand for office space and a decrease in office vacancy."
And addition to the above article, recent article after article, regardless if the jobs are from CA or not, show us stacked up very well to bring in young educated people into the metro:
I think you're missing the point of the article. CA is bleeding jobs to many other major cities and Phoenix is one of the main cities grabbing these jobs. As the article mentions, it's a cost issue for many companies. And frankly many people, even highly educated who have decent paying jobs there(I know more than a few), can't have a decent quality of life anymore in CA given the cost of living. As for the bay area, you can have venture capital out the windows but for workers, this is what many are moving away from/don't consider quality of life:
http://www.mercurynews.com/business/...t-middle-class
"Many displaced tenants spend half a year or more searching for new apartments, she said. Of the approximately 4,900 households with incomes between $50,000 and $160,000 that the agency serves, about 370 are living in their vehicles, mostly in Mountain View and Palo Alto."
"In pricey Bay Area, some turn to vans for cheap living quarters"
So without workers wanting to live in a van, homeless, or live in a shoe box rental place/a barely basic home that takes most of their salary in mortgage expenses see areas like Phoenix to take advantage of the mess CA is for many well educated workers who can't/don't want to afford the mess it has become in many areas. Case and point on this very recent study that fares very well for the Phoenix metro:
"San Francisco remains the nation’s leading tech market, but the competition for talent is getting tougher as more highly skilled tech workers—especially millennials—are flocking to cities where the cost of living is lower and tech jobs are plentiful, according to CBRE Group, Inc.’s annual Research report, “Scoring Tech Talent,” which ranks 50 U.S. and Canadian markets according to their ability to attract and grow tech talent."
"In their quest for highly skilled talent and for lower cost of doing business, both new and expanding companies are establishing footprints in these more affordable markets—including Nashville, Charlotte, Tampa, Seattle and Phoenix—leading to a rise in demand for office space and a decrease in office vacancy."
And addition to the above article, recent article after article, regardless if the jobs are from CA or not, show us stacked up very well to bring in young educated people into the metro:
Small business employees the vast majority of jobs in this nation, not flashy big company names, so we stack up very well there.
What I am trying to say is that not many of the tons of jobs leaving CA are really high paying and those which are, mostly go to Austin or Denver or some other trendy city these days. I rarely see any tech company setting up R&D center in the Phoenix metro. A vast majority of the tech companies that have setup presence in the Phoenix metro, it is their customer service/inside sales/call centers which are far from high paying jobs that would attract highly educated folks.
I work in tech R&D but the reason I am currently able to live here is because I telecommute. I am stuck living here due to family but this seriously hinders my ability to switch jobs or grow my career.
As for Phoenix being one of the best cities for small businesses, the start-up companies that attract venture capital are small businesses and those are apparently thriving in the bay area. Just compare the venture capital that comes to Phoenix with the bay area and you will get an idea on how many high paying small business start-ups exist in this city.
What I am trying to say is that not many of the tons of jobs leaving CA are really high paying and those which are, mostly go to Austin or Denver or some other trendy city these days. I rarely see any tech company setting up R&D center in the Phoenix metro. A vast majority of the tech companies that have setup presence in the Phoenix metro, it is their customer service/inside sales/call centers which are far from high paying jobs that would attract highly educated folks.
I work in tech R&D but the reason I am currently able to live here is because I telecommute. I am stuck living here due to family but this seriously hinders my ability to switch jobs or grow my career.
As for Phoenix being one of the best cities for small businesses, the start-up companies that attract venture capital are small businesses and those are apparently thriving in the bay area. Just compare the venture capital that comes to Phoenix with the bay area and you will get an idea on how many high paying small business start-ups exist in this city.
I understand what you are trying to say but the data shows something different. "High paying" is also relative to the cost of living of an area so you need to normalize such figures. Phoenix salaries are more than likely to be less than bay area salaries because of the COL. But an educated/"well paying" tech worker doesn't need to live in a van to make ends meet here. The CRBE data talks about this/how the COL is a big factor for educated millennials in where they want to locate. It's a trend that is obvious in the CRBE data. As far as "mostly going to Austin or Denver or some other trendy city", you need to read the OP's article again where Phoenix stacks on the list and the CBRE study I posted above. They have a much more detailed view of the trend/the data of what's going on here than your comparatively very small sample of what's really happening.
Last edited by stevek64; 08-16-2016 at 02:04 PM..
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