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The biggest chunk of my life was in CA. I left in the year 2000 mainly for economic and political reasons. I chose to give up what I consider the best climate year-round in the nation to increase my quality of life. If the technocrats are ever ousted from their one-party rule in Sacto I would consider a return.
I understand what you are trying to say but the data shows something different. "High paying" is also relative to the cost of living of an area so you need to normalize such figures. Phoenix salaries are more than likely to be less than bay area salaries because of the COL. But an educated/"well paying" tech worker doesn't need to live in a van to make ends meet here. The CRBE data talks about this/how the COL is a big factor for educated millennials in where they want to locate. It's a trend that is obvious in the CRBE data. As far as "mostly going to Austin or Denver or some other trendy city", you need to read the OP's article again where Phoenix stacks on the list and the CBRE study I posted above. They have a much more detailed view of the trend/the data of what's going on here than your comparatively very small sample of what's really happening.
I am a data obsessed person, but know very well that any data can be used to make the case either way. Someone looking to make a completely data driven and informed opinion will look at all the variables in play. Others will look at the data superficially and believe what they want to believe in.
Interesting...wasn't long ago and most on this forum were telling us how no one wanted to do business in Arizona due to our conservative politics. Seems that is what is driving our growth.
"The other decision-maker said Phoenix is a strong competitor, but some of the management team were concerned about how welcoming the market would be to attracting a diverse workforce.
“We hire foreign nationals, too, and we don’t want to see them feel like they are not welcome in the city where we build,” he told me. “Your sheriff puts a bad face on your brand out here (in the business world).”
"While Phoenix was highly competitive, one company I spoke with said it came down to Arizona's reputation on education. “My key managers didn’t want to relocate to Arizona despite the golf and the weather," said one decision-maker. "They were afraid they would not find good schools for their own children. They also felt that the state’s reputation for poor education would affect the ability to recruit talent from outside.”
Facts speak louder than opinions. See above! You can have fiscal conservatism without the redneck social conservatism. The first response is with regard to diversity. People are concerned about racism in this state. We are not talking about illegals but educated foregin born residents who are in this country legally. They are concerned that if they move here, their children will be discriminated against in schools and the community. This is particularly true among African, Chinese, Indian, and Middle Eastern professionals; often people with PhD's, graduate degrees and high skill sets. They are concerned how they will be treated. In their eyes, if there is this much rhetoric against Mexicans, how are they going to be treated? That's how they preceive it. These are real concerns to them. They are concerned that the anti-immigration speech is just a p.c. way of condoning racism. Now, their perception may be wrong but it is their perception. That perception was strong enough to convince a company from not moving here. So while you may categorize them as being over-sensitive, yeah they were sensitive enough to not bring 3,000 jobs here so maybe we should listen and take their concerns seriously.
Case in point, enforcing immigration laws and being tough on illegal immigration is great. But you don't have to overdo it and delve into speech that is borderline racist or enact laws that racially profile individuals. Be tough on immigration in terms of actions but don't create a side show drama and use racially sensitive language. Once Sheriff Joe leaves, our reputation will instantly improve. Among EDUCATED people in other states, Sheriff Joe is compared to Jessie Helms and Strom Thurmond. Trust me, we don't want that type of reputation.
In short, take the best from every scenario. Let's grab the social liberal quality of California and the fiscal conservatism of Texas. It's the best strategy to lure jobs and companies.
California has been subsidizing Arizona for decades with federal taxes. California is a net payer of federal taxes while Arizona is a net moocher of federal taxes. Decent people would at least be grateful for California to subsidize our lifestyle in Arizona. Las, I do not see them in this thread.
I'm from California. I agree in a sense. I don't think we should demonize California. We should learn from their strengths and avoid their weaknesses. California has a lot of strengths and Arizona could learn from them especially regarding social politics. But I generally prefer our fiscal policy and business friendly tax environment. I think we could be even more aggressive in this area like Texas but we are much better than California.
Speaking from the healthcare stance, so many doctors from California are moving to Arizona. The large presence of HMO's and managed care in California dictating patient care has forced many of their best physicians to relocate. We have been a lucky recipient and a lot of the best doctors in the country are relocating from California to Arizona. It's also a big reason we are getting all of these cancer centers and other health care facilities.
Here is a "high skilled" tech worker that's leaving the Bay Area(and CA) for a more affordable place to live.
Many of my colleagues have left as well.
What we're starting to see, at least in the Bay Area, is an influx of H1B(and just straight illegal) high-skilled immigrants. It's starting to drive wages down, further stressing the high COL problem.
My apartment was near $2k/month, and was a 500sq ft shoe box. I also had an hour and a half commute one way into the city.
It gets old, and gets old very fast.
The problem with California(and Californians in general) is that the state thinks its invincible and that it offers things no other state offers.
California will continue to dig its own hole. Just glad that I won't be around to see how deep that hole goes.
Here is a "high skilled" tech worker that's leaving the Bay Area(and CA) for a more affordable place to live.
Many of my colleagues have left as well.
What we're starting to see, at least in the Bay Area, is an influx of H1B(and just straight illegal) high-skilled immigrants. It's starting to drive wages down, further stressing the high COL problem.
My apartment was near $2k/month, and was a 500sq ft shoe box. I also had an hour and a half commute one way into the city.
It gets old, and gets old very fast.
The problem with California(and Californians in general) is that the state thinks its invincible and that it offers things no other state offers.
California will continue to dig its own hole. Just glad that I won't be around to see how deep that hole goes.
What I've always said is Southern CA is a great place if you have money, it's not so great if you don't. I am working and saving in AZ and would like to return, but have no desire to work (commute) in CA so it will be after I sell my business here and am able to buy the house we want for cash and still have savings to pay for taxes/entertainment/kids college/vacations, etc. It is just not a good place to be able to save so you see people living in cramped quarters and extending their careers well into their 60's or 70's. That's not my plan.
Here is a "high skilled" tech worker that's leaving the Bay Area(and CA) for a more affordable place to live.
Many of my colleagues have left as well.
What we're starting to see, at least in the Bay Area, is an influx of H1B(and just straight illegal) high-skilled immigrants. It's starting to drive wages down, further stressing the high COL problem
1. This is nothing new and started in early 2000's when tech companies began outsourcing software development and other "service oriented" (as opposed to manufacturing) jobs overseas. And this was encouraged by our government and viewed as a way to further international trade and create jobs in foreign countries. The Bush administration actually endorsed this but both political parties endorse this.
2. Don't be upset at the H1B immigrants. If you are going to be frustrated, be frustrated at those who hired them...yes, educated American professionals who wanted to reduce their labor costs. And guess what, it's not going to improve any time soon and is only going to get worse. To them, you guys are expendable because they can get the same or slightly less quality of service for lower costs.
My recommendation, you and your colleagues should start your own company in Phoenix; the local government here is very supportive of entrepreneurs. Instead of working for the man, be the man. Otherwise, this problem is going to follow you wherever you go.
These kind of articles are misleading, to say the least. For every single company "leaving" CA, there are 100s being formed. Bay area leads the nation (and the world) in venture capital investment, having a share of over 25% in global venture capital investment, whereas Phoenix share stands at 0.8%.
IMO, this is due to the difference in culture of innovation which is severely lacking here. All we talk is to leech companies off from elsewhere rather than fostering innovation and entrepreneurship. Even if we succeed in having some headquarters relocate here, it is rare that R&D center of any company started or relocated here. The high paying tech jobs, to the most part, are R&D related, rather than back office work that we seem to excel in.
Ding ding ding. A state with 6 million people vs a state with 40 million people. California is not worried about losing companies to Arizona. Of course California can look for ways to lessen tax burden on businesses but leech articles make Arizona look bad imho. Just another version of the race to the bottom. Innovate not leech.
What I've always said is Southern CA is a great place if you have money, it's not so great if you don't. I am working and saving in AZ and would like to return, but have no desire to work (commute) in CA so it will be after I sell my business here and am able to buy the house we want for cash and still have savings to pay for taxes/entertainment/kids college/vacations, etc. It is just not a good place to be able to save so you see people living in cramped quarters and extending their careers well into their 60's or 70's. That's not my plan.
I agree with you but I prefer my lifestyle in Phoenix. I would have to play for the Lakers or be an actor to afford the lifestyle I have in Phoenix. I just don't want to settle for less just so I can say I live in L.A. My house alone would be over 4 million in LA and season tickets would be over 100K in LA. No thanks, if I miss Disneyland that much, I can fly first class and be there in less than an hour. I don't feel like it's worth paying 2 million dollars for a stucco home in an above average neighborhood to deal with 2 hour one way commutes and $200 restaurant bills. You are better off living in Miami
Ding ding ding. A state with 6 million people vs a state with 40 million people. California is not worried about losing companies to Arizona. Of course California can look for ways to lessen tax burden on businesses but leech articles make Arizona look bad imho. Just another version of the race to the bottom. Innovate not leech.
They are not going to lessen the tax burden on businesses because they don't have to....for now anyway. The reality is the COL is going to continue to escalate. Young people can sustain the COL because they have no other responsibilities. But when having families and raising children come into play, all of those increased costs become unbearable and those people are forced to living average lives in far out burbs or moving and having a much higher standard of living. They will choose the latter.
It is the mentality of the young. It reminds me of medical school. In medical school, every 22 yo first year student wants to be a trauma surgeon, ER doc, neurosurgeon etc. 15 years later when they have kids and are burned out, they wish they were dermatologists. It's the same with tech. The young hot shots don't mind paying $20 for a drink but when you have kids and other responsibilities, suddenly it's no longer fashionable to take the family for $200 dinner when that same one would cost you $80 in Phoenix. With maturity comes reality
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