Phoenix area cities in most need of mass transit improvements (Tempe: apartment, condos)

[asufan]

As an aside, Nala, if you haven't checked out the Mr Money Moustache blog, you should. Seems right up your alley but obviously it is way over the top for me. He has a cult following of like minded people though.

[nala1908]

I did not learn about sustainable living in college. Obviously you did not either. I understand your peers who live in the suburbs would also not understand sustainability.

Yes living in the city with a small yard and a garage is much more sustainable than living in the suburbs with 3000 sqft for 4 people and some pets, a personal pool you use 1 time a week. And 3 cars you NEED to do any day to day activities. A larger capacity sewer is cheaper to maintain than a sewer system that must extend 30 miles. Let alone the initial costs to install it to begin with. And that's just the sewer. You must run electricity, fiber optic, potable water, irrigation water, pave roads. Build hospitals and fire station and police. Then staff all of this infrastructure. With what money? Taxes?

Even if the developers pays for initial construction the cost of maintenance will catch up within 25 years. Our country has a very major debt problem. You can't turn a blind eye too it.

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by nala1908

I did not learn about sustainable living in college. Obviously you did not either. I understand your peers who live in the suburbs would also not understand sustainability.

Yes living in the city with a small yard and a garage is much more sustainable than living in the suburbs with 3000 sqft for 4 people and some pets, a personal pool you use 1 time a week. And 3 cars you NEED to do any day to day activities. A larger capacity sewer is cheaper to maintain than a sewer system that must extend 30 miles. Let alone the initial costs to install it to begin with. And that's just the sewer. You must run electricity, fiber optic, potable water, irrigation water, pave roads. Build hospitals and fire station and police. Then staff all of this infrastructure. With what money? Taxes?

Even if the developers pays for initial construction the cost of maintenance will catch up within 25 years. Our country has a very major debt problem. You can't turn a blind eye too it.

You're mixing up agencies responsible for local infastructure.

[nala1908]

To put it in perspective for you. Manhattan island has the same population as the city of Phoenix, in an area ~23 times smaller. 517 sq mi in Phoenix vs 22 sq mi in Manhattan.

That's 517 square miles for just the city of Phoenix, not including the suburbs and exurbs that you praise.

[asufan]

Originally Posted by nala1908

I did not learn about sustainable living in college. Obviously you did not either. I understand your peers who live in the suburbs would also not understand sustainability.

Yes living in the city with a small yard and a garage is much more sustainable than living in the suburbs with 3000 sqft for 4 people and some pets, a personal pool you use 1 time a week. And 3 cars you NEED to do any day to day activities. A larger capacity sewer is cheaper to maintain than a sewer system that must extend 30 miles. Let alone the initial costs to install it to begin with. And that's just the sewer. You must run electricity, fiber optic, potable water, irrigation water, pave roads. Build hospitals and fire station and police. Then staff all of this infrastructure. With what money? Taxes?

Even if the developers pays for initial construction the cost of maintenance will catch up within 25 years. Our country has a very major debt problem. You can't turn a blind eye too it.

Oh I use the pool more than once a week. Since I run my business out of the house, I'm in the pool several times during the week, oftentimes mid-day while others are at work. Anyway my wife would have a tougher commute to Tempe from Downtown Phoenix than from where we currently live. In case you haven't noticed, sustainability is not on my radar, and it is not for lack of education. I don't care. Never cared.

[asufan]

Originally Posted by nala1908

To put it in perspective for you. Manhattan island has the same population as the city of Phoenix, in an area ~23 times smaller. 517 sq mi in Phoenix vs 22 sq mi in Manhattan.

That's 517 square miles for just the city of Phoenix, not including the suburbs and exurbs that you praise.

Manhattan was built before the automobile. As I've posted before, I spent a month in Manhattan one Summer. It was a lot of fun, and if I had enough money for 3-4 houses, I would be sure to have a Manhattan penthouse on the Upper West Side. Lots of fun, but not for my primary residence, I prefer having some breathing room and not hearing my neighbors dump at 2 AM. Phoenix is not Manhattan, never will be. We can hope it turns into the next Downtown San Diego (minus the water).

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by asufan

Oh I use the pool more than once a week. Since I run my business out of the house, I'm in the pool several times during the week, oftentimes mid-day while others are at work. Anyway my wife would have a tougher commute to Tempe from Downtown Phoenix than from where we currently live. In case you haven't noticed, sustainability is not on my radar, and it is not for lack of education. I don't care. Never cared.

It's actually more sustainable to live close to work. Living in the central city doesn't automatically equate to sustainability, especially ours.

[nala1908]

Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64

It's actually more sustainable to live close to work. Living in the central city doesn't automatically equate to sustainability, especially ours.

I agree

[asufan]

Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64

It's actually more sustainable to live close to work. Living in the central city doesn't automatically equate to sustainability, especially ours.

Well then I guess we made an accidental good call We chose where to live based mainly on school ratings, safety, aesthetics and access to shopping and dining. Proximity to my wifes work was mainly important for our quality of life, not for sustainability. We could have stayed in Tempe which is also nice, but I am happier with things in Chandler.

[sargeant79]

Originally Posted by nala1908

To put it in perspective for you. Manhattan island has the same population as the city of Phoenix, in an area ~23 times smaller. 517 sq mi in Phoenix vs 22 sq mi in Manhattan.

That's 517 square miles for just the city of Phoenix, not including the suburbs and exurbs that you praise.

And there's entirely too damn many people in Manhattan.