Phoenix is one of the ten best cities to build wealth. (Scottsdale: fit in, rental)

[Arizona89A]

Originally Posted by jimj

Add in next years hike in ACA fees of 125%+ and let's see how well people build wealth... It kills the cost of living when your health insurance is as much or more than your rent/mortgage payments. Especially when wages have remained stagnant or gone down.

Yes indeed. And for those who are new to health insurance, I'll try to help out, this is the Affordable Care Act, or, Obama Care.
I don't know what California's hike will be, but if you're new here from the Midwest, and need medical care, then consider California, they have better state medical programs than here. Arizona's priorities are wrong, since they worry about stuff like light rail, and suing over google fibre, when health care and schools should be #1

[locolife]

Originally Posted by Arizona89A

Yes indeed. And for those who are new to health insurance, I'll try to help out, this is the Affordable Care Act, or, Obama Care.
I don't know what California's hike will be, but if you're new here from the Midwest, and need medical care, then consider California, they have better state medical programs than here. Arizona's priorities are wrong, since they worry about stuff like light rail, and suing over google fibre, when health care and schools should be #1

I think you have a few things backwards in your argument here but understand the frustration with AZ's view on schools and healthcare costs. I'd be willing to bet that many who support light rail expansion also support spending more on schools and healthcare, it took grouping light rail with a larger transportation plan to get it passed.

AZ is my home so I'm not going to run away because there's things I don't like, I'll instead focus on what I can do to make improve it.

[goolsbyjazz]

I'm having a tough time believing this list, especially Phoenix's place on it.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by BIG CATS

ShampooBanana said it best. Phoenix is a boom/bust town. When its down, its often the worst in the nation. When its up, its often amongst the best. Its not a stable foundation, which people fail to see when times are good. Then the rug gets pulled out from underneath 'em and BAM!

I tend to agree, and it's because we don't have a very diverse economy. We rely too much on things like seasonal tourism, real estate, construction, and climate for our economic base. When the overall economy is in a downturn (2008 and beyond), there isn't going to be as much tourism, home buying, or construction. And let's face it: our so called "beautiful climate" is not going to attract many people when there is a lack of jobs & housing. Sunshine isn't going to pay the bills or provide a place to live! It's actually kind of funny because during recessions, many people go into a "gloom & doom" mode ... however, when the economy is doing well, the same people do a 180 and claim how wonderful it is to be in Phoenix.

Originally Posted by Arizona89A

Arizona's priorities are wrong, since they worry about stuff like light rail, and suing over google fibre, when health care and schools should be #1

Health care and schools should be top priorities, but it shouldn't be the taxpayers' obligation to fund them. We've already seen how much of a failure the Affordable Care Act has been ... I mean, it was a nice try, but the results have been disastrous. Public education has also become a failed system because it is run and managed by the gov't.

Originally Posted by locolife

I think you have a few things backwards in your argument here but understand the frustration with AZ's view on schools and healthcare costs. I'd be willing to bet that many who support light rail expansion also support spending more on schools and healthcare, it took grouping light rail with a larger transportation plan to get it passed.

You're probably right, but there's another side to it as well. I support the concept of light rail and a decent transportation system, as well as good health care & education. The question is: who pays for it? Do we shove all the costs to the taxpayers (many of whom may not have any use for light rail or public schools)? We really should be more open minded about privatization, or at least partial privatization of many of these services because there are more positives than negatives of letting free enterprise take over.

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

I tend to agree, and it's because we don't have a very diverse economy. We rely too much on things like seasonal tourism, real estate, construction, and climate for our economic base. When the overall economy is in a downturn (2008 and beyond), there isn't going to be as much tourism, home buying, or construction. And let's face it: our so called "beautiful climate" is not going to attract many people when there is a lack of jobs & housing. Sunshine isn't going to pay the bills or provide a place to live! It's actually kind of funny because during recessions, many people go into a "gloom & doom" mode ... however, when the economy is doing well, the same people do a 180 and claim how wonderful it is to be in Phoenix.



Health care and schools should be top priorities, but it shouldn't be the taxpayers' obligation to fund them. We've already seen how much of a failure the Affordable Care Act has been ... I mean, it was a nice try, but the results have been disastrous. Public education has also become a failed system because it is run and managed by the gov't.



You're probably right, but there's another side to it as well. I support the concept of light rail and a decent transportation system, as well as good health care & education. The question is: who pays for it? Do we shove all the costs to the taxpayers (many of whom may not have any use for light rail or public schools)? We really should be more open minded about privatization, or at least partial privatization of many of these services because there are more positives than negatives of letting free enterprise take over.

The private sector would have to charge minimum $10 for a one way fare, minimum $20 for a day pass, non starter

[locolife]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

You're probably right, but there's another side to it as well. I support the concept of light rail and a decent transportation system, as well as good health care & education. The question is: who pays for it? Do we shove all the costs to the taxpayers (many of whom may not have any use for light rail or public schools)?

I guess that depends on your view of spending money on things like transportation, you can say it's just for getting from point a to point b in the most efficient manner possible or you can view it as an investment in the region and try to quantify the return you get on making such an investment. If light rail or new freeways enable the region to attract new companies and create new jobs then there's a regional benefit gained by anyone who works, owns property or is invested in this region in countless other ways. Just because someone doesn't use a certain highway or ride a train doesn't mean they won't reap the benefits of an investment in it. To me, it's pretty clear that not investing in a region is a good way to find yourself in the cellar of economic performance.

Private, aka toll, roads have been proposed in the past here, it usually doesn't go over too well. I think we are starting to see this concept come up again but I won't be surprised if it goes nowhere.

[Arizona89A]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

I tend to agree, and it's because we don't have a very diverse economy. We rely too much on things like seasonal tourism, real estate, construction, and climate for our economic base. When the overall economy is in a downturn (2008 and beyond), there isn't going to be as much tourism, home buying, or construction. And let's face it: our so called "beautiful climate" is not going to attract many people when there is a lack of jobs & housing. Sunshine isn't going to pay the bills or provide a place to live! It's actually kind of funny because during recessions, many people go into a "gloom & doom" mode ... however, when the economy is doing well, the same people do a 180 and claim how wonderful it is to be in Phoenix.



Health care and schools should be top priorities, but it shouldn't be the taxpayers' obligation to fund them. We've already seen how much of a failure the Affordable Care Act has been ... I mean, it was a nice try, but the results have been disastrous. Public education has also become a failed system because it is run and managed by the gov't.



You're probably right, but there's another side to it as well. I support the concept of light rail and a decent transportation system, as well as good health care & education. The question is: who pays for it? Do we shove all the costs to the taxpayers (many of whom may not have any use for light rail or public schools)? We really should be more open minded about privatization, or at least partial privatization of many of these services because there are more positives than negatives of letting free enterprise take over.

I think privatizing light rail is a good suggestion, since every single privately funded think tank and privstely funded engineer has concluded that light rail is too expensive compared to other types of transportation such as bike lanes and bus rapid transit. Therefore, private groups would not build light rail. Or if they did, they would have cost overruns and go bankrupt.

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by Arizona89A

I think privatizing light rail is a good suggestion, since every single privately funded think tank and privstely funded engineer has concluded that light rail is too expensive compared to other types of transportation such as bike lanes and bus rapid transit. Therefore, private groups would not build light rail. Or if they did, they would have cost overruns and go bankrupt.

Even the NYC subway doesn't turn a profit. Public transportation is just that, PUBLIC!

[Java Jolt]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

Even the NYC subway doesn't turn a profit. Public transportation is just that, PUBLIC!

I agree, turning roads, busses, and rail over to for-profit corporations defeats the whole purpose of public transportation.

The same argument can be made about education and law enforcement, they are in place for the public good.

Making all these things private and forcing people to pay hefty user fees each time they call the police, drive on a roadway, or enroll their children in school makes no sense.

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by Java Jolt

I agree, turning roads, busses, and rail over to for-profit corporations defeats the whole purpose of public transportation.

The same argument can be made about education and law enforcement, they are in place for the public good.

Making all these things private and forcing people to pay hefty user fees each time they call the police, drive on a roadway, or enroll their children in school makes no sense.

Repped you, my thoughts exactly. Also, making police private gets into a dark moral territory having to "pay for justice" and protection; not a world I would want to live in. Also, what authority would a private police have exactly?