"In Phoenix, signs of a downtown ready to thrive again" article (house, construction)
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That is a good article, and lots of truth in it. My intention wasn't to compare Las Vegas to Phoenix, or discuss what's good or bad about the Strip. I only mentioned City Center because, despite a rocky start, it has become the crown jewel of Las Vegas. It's a world class business/hotel/entertainment development along with skyscrapers that dwarf anything which Phoenix currently has in the works.
We could really use something on this scale in downtown or along the Central Corridor to enhance the skyline, bring in residents, tourists, and entertainment. But knowing that Phoenix will probably never see anything like this, I guess we'll have to pretend to be impressed with any 5, 10, or 20 story building that comes to fruition (despite the fact that Phoenix's population is nearly three times the size as Vegas).
I'm happy to see interest in downtown, I know there's not 1000' buildings being proposed on every corner but there's definitely been a shift if you were around here in the late 90's to early 2000's the difference is between then and now is huge.
Not every large US city has a huge skyline by the way and I don't think it's really necessary to have a great downtown, I'd be all for it, but it's probably not in the cards here and I'm okay with that.
#7 on the list, just behind us is San Antonio, besides the space needle their tallest building is just a bit taller then ours at 546' (versus about 500' for Chase tower). And they have 8 buildings over 300', compared to our 20.
The #8 largest city, San Diego, also has height restriction like Phoenix due to an airport. Their tallest building is 500' and they have 32 above 300'.
#10 on the list is San Jose, a city with 0 buildings above 300'.
Portland, OR has an awesome downtown and they only have 15 buildings over 300'.
I'd love to have a huge skyline but after traveling the country and seeing what really makes a place fun I realized it isn't always just huge buildings everywhere. It's good to see us focus on making the city full of life and active 24x7. When that happens more people will move in, like they are starting to do, and then we'll likely start to see economics work out for bigger and bigger buildings.
Thanks locolife !
Your work is deeply appreciated. One by one the fire of the negative is being extinguished.
It's one thing to have different opinionated views , actually there're encouraged, but to continuously post negative content in the obvious face of positivity gets annoying at times.
I mean some of these posters make your stomach cringe just at the sight of their name.
Thank you again locolife, your energy is our strength !
I'm happy to see interest in downtown, I know there's not 1000' buildings being proposed on every corner but there's definitely been a shift if you were around here in the late 90's to early 2000's the difference is between then and now is huge.
Much like San Diego, Sky Harbor is going to limit the height of the buildings at least in the lower half of Downtown. Good thing is we don't need huge buildings. If you look at the cities you described with really tall buildings.,..they don't have the available vacant land that even Phoenix proper does.
Downtown size tends to be based on something like metro or urban area size, not municipal population. So Phoenix's downtown comparisons would be places like Detroit (a little larger) and Seattle (a little smaller). San Diego is substantially smaller, San Jose is part of a larger center's orbit, and San Antonio is much smaller. Houston would be another comparable larger.
It's going in the right direction. Downtown growth tends to build on itself, i.e. one round attracts the next round. It does take a while.
Downtown size tends to be based on something like metro or urban area size, not municipal population. So Phoenix's downtown comparisons would be places like Detroit (a little larger) and Seattle (a little smaller). San Diego is substantially smaller, San Jose is part of a larger center's orbit, and San Antonio is much smaller. Houston would be another comparable larger.
It's going in the right direction. Downtown growth tends to build on itself, i.e. one round attracts the next round. It does take a while.
Yeah, I agree with this, I commonly hear that Phoenix is the 6th largest city so it needs to be this and that but in reality were around the 13th or so largest metro area.
Another key difference is when we grew up, yes Phoenix is on par with Detroit, but Detroit is way older. Cities that were big before the automobile area grew up much differently then those who came of age after. There's no way around that fact, cars drastically changed the makeup of cities and certain steps the auto industry/government took made sure things grew the way they did. But I've lived in some of Amercia's oldest cities and of course here in one of the newest and I can say without doubt my preference in day to day life is the convenience of a modern city.
Thanks locolife !
Your work is deeply appreciated. One by one the fire of the negative is being extinguished.
It's one thing to have different opinionated views , actually there're encouraged, but to continuously post negative content in the obvious face of positivity gets annoying at times.
I mean some of these posters make your stomach cringe just at the sight of their name.
Thank you again locolife, your energy is our strength !
Thanks SB, I feel the same way about your commentary, it's nice to see some other positive posts on here!
Yeah, I agree with this, I commonly hear that Phoenix is the 6th largest city so it needs to be this and that but in reality were around the 13th or so largest metro area.
Another key difference is when we grew up, yes Phoenix is on par with Detroit, but Detroit is way older. Cities that were big before the automobile area grew up much differently then those who came of age after. There's no way around that fact, cars drastically changed the makeup of cities and certain steps the auto industry/government took made sure things grew the way they did. But I've lived in some of Amercia's oldest cities and of course here in one of the newest and I can say without doubt my preference in day to day life is the convenience of a modern city.
Im super curious... how is it more convenient to you? My biggest complaint about PHX is that its not very convenient if you don't live right near the light rail. If you live in the burbs, you have to own a car. If you want groceries and live downtown, you're screwed. PHX is so inconvenient in so many ways. Transportation and food are two of the biggest things we have to deal with in life, and PHX is absolutely horrible when it comes to that. Its getting better, but I just don't see how PHX could be more "convenient" than LA or NYC. Explain.
Rambling aside, I do love PHX. Its quirky and fun and entertaining, but I would never call it "convenient". In fact, just yesterday I spent almost 2 hours just driving around downtown and surrounding neighborhoods, just because.
Wow, an 11 story building with a 20 story so called "tower" right close by. And we can't forget those wonderful 4 to 10 story residential buildings for downtown Phoenix ... WOO HOO! Maybe this would be impressive in the downtown areas of Spokane or Colorado Springs, but not in the nation's sixth largest city.
If anybody wants to see impressive, look at City Center in Las Vegas. What was once a mediocre part of the Strip just 10 years ago is now a major destination, complete with lavish hotels & nightlife, and it resembles a city within a city. Build something similar to this in Phoenix, and I'll be impressed. In the meantime, I guess some of you are just fine with a downtown area that has the height and lure of a small city.
Vegas is the supreme definition of CHEESY. If PHX had Vegas in its aspirational sights, I would leave. If anything, I would hope PHX aims to be like SF or CHI... a mix of business and entertainment downtown, complete with stunning architecture... not horrendous replicas of other places (here looking at you Luxor, NY NY, Paris, Excalibur, etc).
Im super curious... how is it more convenient to you? My biggest complaint about PHX is that its not very convenient if you don't live right near the light rail. If you live in the burbs, you have to own a car. If you want groceries and live downtown, you're screwed. PHX is so inconvenient in so many ways. Transportation and food are two of the biggest things we have to deal with in life, and PHX is absolutely horrible when it comes to that. Its getting better, but I just don't see how PHX could be more "convenient" than LA or NYC. Explain.
Rambling aside, I do love PHX. Its quirky and fun and entertaining, but I would never call it "convenient". In fact, just yesterday I spent almost 2 hours just driving around downtown and surrounding neighborhoods, just because.
Few cities do cars better than Phoenix, and the layout is simple to understand.
1x1 mile blocks with stores on each corner. Numbers runs N/S, Names run E/W. Simple. Everywhere has a parking lot. Most homes have garages. Signage on roads is impeccable. Freeways are simple. It's also easy to conceptualize addresses without actually looking at a map. 700 W. Washington? 7th Ave and Washington. 700 E. Washington? 7th Street and Washington. 14300 W. Bell Rd.? 143rd Ave and Bell. 4231 E. Indian School Rd.? Just past 42nd St. and Indian School . . .
In LA you have to plan to be trapped in a traffic jam for up to an hour, roads don't connect with each other. In NYC you have to cram yourself into an underground tube and driving around is out of the question.
It's very convenient and easy in its own way. There are few large cities that do cars/driving better than Phoenix does. You admit yourself you drove around DT for 2hrs. That's because it's easy and leisurely.
Few cities do cars better than Phoenix, and the layout is simple to understand.
1x1 mile blocks with stores on each corner. Numbers runs N/S, Names run E/W. Simple. Everywhere has a parking lot. Most homes have garages. Signage on roads is impeccable. Freeways are simple. It's also easy to conceptualize addresses without actually looking at a map. 700 W. Washington? 7th Ave and Washington. 700 E. Washington? 7th Street and Washington. 14300 W. Bell Rd.? 143rd Ave and Bell. 4231 E. Indian School Rd.? Just past 42nd St. and Indian School . . .
In LA you have to plan to be trapped in a traffic jam for up to an hour, roads don't connect with each other. In NYC you have to cram yourself into an underground tube and driving around is out of the question.
It's very convenient and easy in its own way. There are few large cities that do cars/driving better than Phoenix does. You admit yourself you drove around DT for 2hrs. That's because it's easy and leisurely.
Agreed. PHX does cars very well. The grid is nice (most big cities use grids btw). But therein lies part of the problem. I cant help but think of those sitting on the I-10 in the afternoon, at a standstill, where trains and subways could be utilized to whisk people heading out to, say, Glendale. Most large cities have that option, and having lived in Chicagoland, there are businessmen I knew who swore they would never drive a car to work again. Being whisked along after work on a train back to your home at 60mph while looking out the window at gridlocked traffic is a thing of beauty. As I said above, unless you live right on the light rail, PHX isn't super convenient. I would DIE to have a comprehensive, fast-moving rail system that spidered out all over the Valley, not just slow light rail that only caters to ASU students and those living right downtown.
Downtown is pretty easy, minus the one-ways and construction in some areas. Its always fun just looking at the buildings and homes right outside downtown. But head south on Central, go under the tracks, and BAM! right into nothingness, abandoned lots, decrepit homes, bum hoardes, and bad poverty. So weird. I took Central all the way down to South Mountain Park and was shocked to see how rundown that area is, especially south of the river.
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