"In Phoenix, signs of a downtown ready to thrive again" article (Scottsdale: condo, new construction)

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by new2colo

This 31 story building is another pie in the sky proposal. I'll believe it when I see it. We all know developers have a history of proposing grandiose high rise projects that never see the light of day. The 34-story Central Station project that people were excited about several years back is still a bus station, the Pin observation tower that was supposed to be constructed and opened by the Super Bowl was a dud and the micro unit high rise deal called the Derby fell through. Add that to a list of other Valleywide projects including the 40-story cbd101 office building that was proposed at Westgate in Glendale about ten years ago, the complex that was supposed to be built on the Monti's site in Tempe, the USA Basketball complex in Tempe that is still a boarded up Chili's, the Whole Foods/residential complex near Mill and University, and the transformation of the Hayden Flour Mill into a hotel and amphitheater and you will see that projects are rarely delivered as proposed anymore. This particular apartment building at AZ Center was proposed 30 years ago when the complex was constructed and no dirt has moved.

Phoenix has an extremely long history of empty developer promises when it comes to high rise development. The tallest building in the world was proposed along Central Avenue back in the 80s. It doesn't take much effort to see that never came to fruition either. I'll wait until the dirt moves and there are actually construction workers on site before accepting this project as reality.

I have to fully agree here. For many years, there have been numerous proposals for highrises and other developments which seemed promising, but never materialized. In addition to the canceled projects you mentioned, there was also the 39 story W Hotel downtown that was fought by a Chinese group because it was on the site of the Sun Mercantile building, which supposedly had some kind of Chinese historical significance (which has never been proven). Then there was the downtown entertainment district that was highly anticipated but went nowhere.

Other proposed highrise projects that never broke ground were Cielo near Central & Camelback, Metro Lofts near Central & Highland, a 50 story Toll Brothers condo complex near Central & Virginia, Landmark, City Centre, SWDG Condos, and Copper Pointe. You can see all of these and more on the Emporis website.
https://www.emporis.com/city/101034/...status/unbuilt

[AZSunDevil83]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

I have to fully agree here. For many years, there have been numerous proposals for highrises and other developments which seemed promising, but never materialized. In addition to the canceled projects you mentioned, there was also the 39 story W Hotel downtown that was fought by a Chinese group because it was on the site of the Sun Mercantile building, which supposedly had some kind of Chinese historical significance (which has never been proven). Then there was the downtown entertainment district that was highly anticipated but went nowhere.

Other proposed highrise projects that never broke ground were Cielo near Central & Camelback, Metro Lofts near Central & Highland, a 50 story Toll Brothers condo complex near Central & Virginia, Landmark, City Centre, SWDG Condos, and Copper Pointe. You can see all of these and more on the Emporis website.
https://www.emporis.com/city/101034/...status/unbuilt

There's a difference between being pessimistic and downright negative. You are the latter. You are quoting a list where 99% of the projects proposed were during an era of "pie in the sky" proposals and many were speculative at best. Stop living in the past and recognize that something special is brewing and this time it feels and IS different. If you're going to be calling out all past failures to fit your narrative, be sure to include all the successful projects moving forward as well.

But in any regard, The Stewart is moving forward and going vertical soon, and all without a GPLET. I think this speaks volumes to just how hot the downtown Phoenix market is and how a project of this size can move forward without a tax break. Many are expecting The Derby to be next.

Also, not new news but officially announced. Quicken moving 1,100 of its employees to downtown Phoenix and should help cushion the blow some of Chase employee relocation announcement. I expect more similar corporate moves to downtown to follow.

[The_Cadillac_Lawyer]

I don't know if it's been discussed, but what's up with the commercialization of Roosevelt Row? Seems like what truly made it unique, most of the gallery's and eclectic vibe, is now gone.

[locolife]

You're seeing gentrification in action, head over o Grand for the old Roosevelt feel.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by The_Cadillac_Lawyer

I don't know if it's been discussed, but what's up with the commercialization of Roosevelt Row? Seems like what truly made it unique, most of the gallery's and eclectic vibe, is now gone.

I work just a few blocks off Roosevelt Row, so I've seen the progress there on a daily basis. And, yes, I'd definitely call it progress. An abundance of new housing has been built within walking distance of light rail -- something that has been part of the city's vision for a long time but delayed by the real estate crash. A few vintage buildings have been unfortunate casualties, but most of the construction is taking place on vacant lots. A few businesses have closed but an equal number have moved in, and some like Jobot have relocated to spaces in the new buildings. As for art galleries, keep in mind that many of the "galleries" that have closed weren't even fully functional businesses with hours beyond first and third Fridays. I liked the scrappy, artsy quality of Roosevelt Row 10 years ago, but I always saw it as a transitional step toward eventual development and density. Others, many of the same people now up in arms over the Melrose liquor store, apparently wanted Roosevelt Row to stay the same forever, vacant lots and all.

[phoenixmike11]

Phoenix Suns coach Earl Watson talks downtown home, pizza delivery

Suns coach Earl Watson talks downtown Phoenix home, pizza delivery

[GSR13]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

I work just a few blocks off Roosevelt Row, so I've seen the progress there on a daily basis. And, yes, I'd definitely call it progress. An abundance of new housing has been built within walking distance of light rail -- something that has been part of the city's vision for a long time but delayed by the real estate crash. A few vintage buildings have been unfortunate casualties, but most of the construction is taking place on vacant lots. A few businesses have closed but an equal number have moved in, and some like Jobot have relocated to spaces in the new buildings. As for art galleries, keep in mind that many of the "galleries" that have closed weren't even fully functional businesses with hours beyond first and third Fridays. I liked the scrappy, artsy quality of Roosevelt Row 10 years ago, but I always saw it as a transitional step toward eventual development and density. Others, many of the same people now up in arms over the Melrose liquor store, apparently wanted Roosevelt Row to stay the same forever, vacant lots and all.

In any other time period it would indeed be progress. The problem now is that it involves an influx of whiny, snowflake, prima-donna liberal millennial hive-minded hipsters. 20 years ago the same gentrification on Roosevelt Row would have seen much cooler and level-headed Gen X counter-culture denizens moving in.

You really can't have an honest assessment of the effects of modern-day gentrification without mention of the hipster factor. Older generations uniformly consider Millennials to be the most worthless and inept generation to have ever existed.

In the final cost-benefit analysis of gentrification, you've got to consider the character of the people moving in.

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by GSR13

In any other time period it would indeed be progress. The problem now is that it involves an influx of whiny, snowflake, prima-donna liberal millennial hive-minded hipsters. 20 years ago the same gentrification on Roosevelt Row would have seen much cooler and level-headed Gen X counter-culture denizens moving in.

You really can't have an honest assessment of the effects of modern-day gentrification without mention of the hipster factor. Older generations uniformly consider Millennials to be the most worthless and inept generation to have ever existed.

In the final cost-benefit analysis of gentrification, you've got to consider the character of the people moving in.

I'm a Gen Xer (though a late one), and I just moved Downtown on Sunday, I really like it

[Thomasaz]

Originally Posted by GSR13

In any other time period it would indeed be progress. The problem now is that it involves an influx of whiny, snowflake, prima-donna liberal millennial hive-minded hipsters. 20 years ago the same gentrification on Roosevelt Row would have seen much cooler and level-headed Gen X counter-culture denizens moving in.

You really can't have an honest assessment of the effects of modern-day gentrification without mention of the hipster factor. Older generations uniformly consider Millennials to be the most worthless and inept generation to have ever existed.

In the final cost-benefit analysis of gentrification, you've got to consider the character of the people moving in.

Judging by what you said, if someone with your character moved in, then downtown would turn into a hell hole.

[DetroitN8V]

Originally Posted by Thomasaz

Judging by what you said, if someone with your character moved in, then downtown would turn into a hell hole.

My thoughts too. Fortunately these horrific hipster millenials are moving in, rather than a curmudgeon that sees people as blanket stereotypes, rather than individuals.