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Nailed it, I remember walking around downtown Manhattan on a weekend struggling to find anything open to eat, its as dense as you can imagine but hardly anyone lives there and it feels like no mans land after the work day ends. Now midtown is great since people and tourists are there 24x7.
Densification is what we need and every major city has dozens more low-midrise buildings when comparing to highrises. I’d much rather fill in the empty gaps with mixed use 5-10 story buildings than continue with open land between and empty parking lots separating sections of downtown, this is already making walkability better and will continue to do so. When the market demands high rises they will come.
You're correct on many things, but you have to remember Manhattan is mostly business. Yes its mega dense, but you CANT expect to find things there at night. Same goes for Chicago's loop. At night there are still things to do, but not like during the day. That's to be expected.
Here's where I agree with him. Manhattan, Chicago's Loop, etc, might be dense and full of highrises but a lame at night. But in the daytime they turn into financial powerhouses. That's what gives them Alpha Class ratings and are respected worldwide. We here in Phoenix say "screw the highrises we don't need em". Well, most highrises are for business, or at least mixed residential/business. Here in PHX our infill are.... condos and apartments for the most part. Small ones.
So while you guys might harp on him and his infatuation with highrises, I have to kind of agree with him. No major employer (which requires a highrise) is going to look at downtown PHX as an attractive place to do business. At least not at the moment. And no, we shouldn't be giddy about 15 story apartment complexes. All that's doing is bringing in people and no big business. What does that remind you of? A suburb. Precisely.
Lets take a look... yes, this area is dead at night... but I can also see Boeing, Chase, Trump, Equity, Prudential, United Airlines, Aon, etc, all right here. All serviced by elevated rail and ground rail. Highrises housing major business is what PHX needs to attract. Not apartment complexes. We are the 5th biggest city in the nation, and absolutely surpassed by many which are 1/2 our size. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ca/b3...0e526c07d7.jpg
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG CATS
You're correct on many things, but you have to remember Manhattan is mostly business. Yes its mega dense, but you CANT expect to find things there at night. Same goes for Chicago's loop. At night there are still things to do, but not like during the day. That's to be expected.
Here's where I agree with him. Manhattan, Chicago's Loop, etc, might be dense and full of highrises but a lame at night. But in the daytime they turn into financial powerhouses. That's what gives them Alpha Class ratings and are respected worldwide. We here in Phoenix say "screw the highrises we don't need em". Well, most highrises are for business, or at least mixed residential/business. Here in PHX our infill are.... condos and apartments for the most part. Small ones.
So while you guys might harp on him and his infatuation with highrises, I have to kind of agree with him. No major employer (which requires a highrise) is going to look at downtown PHX as an attractive place to do business. At least not at the moment. And no, we shouldn't be giddy about 15 story apartment complexes. All that's doing is bringing in people and no big business. What does that remind you of? A suburb. Precisely.
Lets take a look... yes, this area is dead at night... but I can also see Boeing, Chase, Trump, Equity, Prudential, United Airlines, Aon, etc, all right here. All serviced by elevated rail and ground rail. Highrises housing major business is what PHX needs to attract. Not apartment complexes. We are the 5th biggest city in the nation, and absolutely surpassed by many which are 1/2 our size. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ca/b3...0e526c07d7.jpg
We obviously need apartments as well, otherwise we will be the next California where a studio is $1,300/month. We don't have the income levels to support that high rent and condo/home prices
We obviously need apartments as well, otherwise we will be the next California where a studio is $1,300/month. We don't have the income levels to support that high rent and condo/home prices
We could if we brought in a butt ton of Fortune 500 companies. In highrises.
We could if we brought in a butt ton of Fortune 500 companies. In highrises.
Nobody brings in butt tons of fortune 500s, they’re in established regions and moving them away is a HUGE undertaking, just attracting 2 would be a huge win and a lot of them aren’t in big fancy high rises. Look at the ones we do have here- Avnet, Freeport, Republic Services, Petsmart (before going private), Insight and even US Air when they were here, only 1 is in a highrise.
I’m all for more job growth but the idea that we’re not successful unless our city looks like Chicago is like telling your kid that if they start playing football they haven’t accomplished anything good until they’re signed in the NFL. I’m more interested in a walkable, interesting and creative central city with cool things to see and do. Hundreds of high rises are great but not a requirement for me to consider downtown Phoenix a successful city center. Compared to where it was just 10 years ago I’m loving it, there’s a lot to see and do and you can easily jump around from neighborhood to neighborhood by bike, all kinds of cool new entertainment, local food, music, art, breweries and so on.
Bring on all the fortune companies we can get, of course. But that’s not a prerequisite for success in my mind. Adding startups like T&N, Uber’s operations hub, Quicken’s financial services business, and so on are great wins so far and should help build a snowball effect.
You're correct on many things, but you have to remember Manhattan is mostly business. Yes its mega dense, but you CANT expect to find things there at night. Same goes for Chicago's loop. At night there are still things to do, but not like during the day. That's to be expected.
Here's where I agree with him. Manhattan, Chicago's Loop, etc, might be dense and full of highrises but a lame at night. But in the daytime they turn into financial powerhouses. That's what gives them Alpha Class ratings and are respected worldwide. We here in Phoenix say "screw the highrises we don't need em". Well, most highrises are for business, or at least mixed residential/business. Here in PHX our infill are.... condos and apartments for the most part. Small ones.
So while you guys might harp on him and his infatuation with highrises, I have to kind of agree with him. No major employer (which requires a highrise) is going to look at downtown PHX as an attractive place to do business. At least not at the moment. And no, we shouldn't be giddy about 15 story apartment complexes. All that's doing is bringing in people and no big business. What does that remind you of? A suburb. Precisely.
Lets take a look... yes, this area is dead at night... but I can also see Boeing, Chase, Trump, Equity, Prudential, United Airlines, Aon, etc, all right here. All serviced by elevated rail and ground rail. Highrises housing major business is what PHX needs to attract. Not apartment complexes. We are the 5th biggest city in the nation, and absolutely surpassed by many which are 1/2 our size. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ca/b3...0e526c07d7.jpg
This is correct only if you are referring to the tip of Manhattan--the financial district (which is getting more and more alive at night)
Midtown Manhattan contains most of New York's high rises and vast residential sections in and around it. It is the entertainment, retail, restaurant heart of the city as well as a financial powerhouse. Most Fortune 500 companies are midtown, as well as Advertising, publishing centers.
And as such it is crowded day and night into all hours. New York is hardly dead at night.
This is correct only if you are referring to the tip of Manhattan--the financial district (which is getting more and more alive at night)
Midtown Manhattan contains most of New York's high rises and vast residential sections in and around it. It is the entertainment, retail, restaurant heart of the city as well as a financial powerhouse. Most Fortune 500 companies are midtown, as well as Advertising, publishing centers.
And as such it is crowded day and night into all hours. New York is hardly dead at night.
I cant speak for Manhattan, personally, as Ive never been there myself. I can vouch for the Loop, though, which is more what I was aiming at, specifically with my, you know, photo and stuff.
"Downtown" NY isn't any downtown in the sense we think of downtown. It is mostly financial center now.
The real "downtown" of New York is Midtown--the beating heart of New York. Always crowded and more lively than any urban center in the country.
Have never been to the Loop in Chicago.
I think Phoenix (like Albuquerque) needs a good solid residential core of buildings to bring life to downtown. And places of interest (entertainment centers, theater, restaurants, museums, etc. to bring in tourists).
A great city that does it well on a much smaller scale is Santa Barbara, CA. Amazing downtown full of people and interest.
Nobody brings in butt tons of fortune 500s, they’re in established regions and moving them away is a HUGE undertaking, just attracting 2 would be a huge win and a lot of them aren’t in big fancy high rises. Look at the ones we do have here- Avnet, Freeport, Republic Services, Petsmart (before going private), Insight and even US Air when they were here, only 1 is in a highrise.
I’m all for more job growth but the idea that we’re not successful unless our city looks like Chicago is like telling your kid that if they start playing football they haven’t accomplished anything good until they’re signed in the NFL. I’m more interested in a walkable, interesting and creative central city with cool things to see and do. Hundreds of high rises are great but not a requirement for me to consider downtown Phoenix a successful city center. Compared to where it was just 10 years ago I’m loving it, there’s a lot to see and do and you can easily jump around from neighborhood to neighborhood by bike, all kinds of cool new entertainment, local food, music, art, breweries and so on.
Bring on all the fortune companies we can get, of course. But that’s not a prerequisite for success in my mind. Adding startups like T&N, Uber’s operations hub, Quicken’s financial services business, and so on are great wins so far and should help build a snowball effect.
That's not what I said. But anyways, the question is why NOT aim to be in the big leagues if we're posting big league numbers? We're the 5th biggest city, and not much to show for it. If the only qualities you're aiming for in Phoenix is walkable and interesting, with some breweries and art galleries mixed in, you can already find that in Scottsdale. And Tempe. Lets aim BIG!
"Downtown" NY isn't any downtown in the sense we think of downtown. It is mostly financial center now.
The real "downtown" of New York is Midtown--the beating heart of New York. Always crowded and more lively than any urban center in the country.
Have never been to the Loop in Chicago.
I think Phoenix (like Albuquerque) needs a good solid residential core of buildings to bring life to downtown. And places of interest (entertainment centers, theater, restaurants, museums, etc. to bring in tourists).
A great city that does it well on a much smaller scale is Santa Barbara, CA. Amazing downtown full of people and interest.
The thing is that Phoenix already has all that! It looks good on paper and to us Phoenicians, but people visiting here complain how there isn't a good downtown core. Ive heard it a million times from visitors themselves. Visitors to the Valley usually end up staying in Scottsdale instead. That's not good. I mean, I love Scottsdale, but if a suburb is a bigger attraction than the 5th largest city in the USA, it just goes to show.
The thing is that Phoenix already has all that! It looks good on paper and to us Phoenicians, but people visiting here complain how there isn't a good downtown core. Ive heard it a million times from visitors themselves. Visitors to the Valley usually end up staying in Scottsdale instead. That's not good. I mean, I love Scottsdale, but if a suburb is a bigger attraction than the 5th largest city in the USA, it just goes to show.
This is false and probably would've been an accurate statement 2-3 years ago. Your personal observation does not make it true. The reality is that Scottsdale is constantly losing events, entertainment options, music acts and business to downtown Phoenix. You see it all the time with all the festivals that are leaving to downtown. There's a reason that Scottsdale is investing millions of dollars in a re-branding campaign...they're losing visitors and residents.
Last edited by AZSunDevil83; 11-14-2017 at 03:08 PM..
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