"In Phoenix, signs of a downtown ready to thrive again" article (Scottsdale: crime, hotels)
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This was definitely not praise. Talton doesn't praise Phoenix at all. He sees through the fluff about Phoenix being some Shangri La with a booming economy. The fact of the matter is the downtown Phoenix has very little to keep its weak engine running. If it wasn't for the sports arenas and ASU/UA, downtown would die off tomorrow. As much as downtown has grown over the past decade, it's still not on solid ground. While several other comparably sized cites are throwing up highrises in their downtown areas, Phoenix does nothing because all of the companies are going to Deer Valley or the east side. Downtown Phoenix is obsolete and is hanging on by the threads of the Suns/Mercury arena, Chase Field, the Convention Center and ASU/UA downtown. During non-game days in the summertime, downtown Phoenix is beyond dead. Talton longs for the days when downtown Phoenix was comprised of smaller buildings that opened up on to vibrant streets. Those days are gone as those buildings have long been torn down, replaced with sterile, functionally obsolete highrises with odd entrances towering over mostly dead streets.
Don't you commute along the 303 and use it as a basis for our lack of traffic?
When I go to NY, I like it because I'm experiencing the uniqueness of NY. The same could be said of LA or Chicago. I don't think DT Phoenix will ever be a NY, LA, Chicago or SF. As a matter of fact, I think it would be a mistake to try to make it like them. I do believe it needs to develop its own vision of a downtown that would be unique to the city. Sure people move here from all over and usually look for similarities from the place they came from. I hope Phoenix does not fall into that trap of trying to be like other cities and continues to work hard on forming and branding its own identity.
You are so right downtown is terrible, just ASU and a few arenas. That's why rental rates are now the highest in the valley and companies keep moving there. That's why 3 new hotels opened this year and 6,000 or so new residential units are under construction or being planned.
Are you stuck in 2002? Because you're talking about Phoenix of 15 years ago....
Residential Development:
• Recently opened: 440 units (410 apartments, 30 town-homes)
• Under construction: 2,033 units (1,758 apartments, 275 condominiums)
• Pre-development 2,617 units (2,468 apartments, 149 condominiums)
• City RFP process-approximately 900 units in 3 proposals
**This total is nearly 6,000 housing units which is almost as many as the total number of housing
units in Downtown at the beginning of 2015**
Commercial Development:
Downtown Phoenix achieved a benchmark in 2016, receiving 122,220 square feet of repurposed office space in the fourth quarter and marking the first time new inventory has been added to the submarket since 2010. Situated in the fast-growing Warehouse District at 515 E. Grant St., the redeveloped warehouse is currently 100 percent pre-leased and will be the future home for tech start-ups WebPT and Galvanize.
New Large Developments in the works:
Central Park East an 11 story hotel along 1st Street and 17-story residential building on Central.
enHance is starting Phase 2 of 3. 7 stories at 1st and Portland
Renaissance Hotel renovation.
Block 23 aka the Fry's Development is set to be around 232' tall
the Derby development at around 250'
the Stewart at about 220'
*standing ovation*
Great list. You forgot to mention a couple of projects including Barrister project which will be another residential tower and the Fillmore RFP which will bring hundreds of residents to the West Fillmore neighborhood. Plus let's not forget the South extension of the Light Rail that will happen soon which will spur more development along the southern edge of downtown..
I swear, have some civic pride people! It's like they are trying to sabotage and make our city look bad on purpose lol
Great list. You forgot to mention a couple of projects including Barrister project which will be another residential tower and the Fillmore RFP which will bring hundreds of residents to the West Fillmore neighborhood. Plus let's not forget the South extension of the Light Rail that will happen soon which will spur more development along the southern edge of downtown..
I swear, have some civic pride people! It's like they are trying to sabotage and make our city look bad on purpose lol
The Barrister project, including the 100 year old historic structure, will be another revitalization project which will be benefit the area, as will the Fillmore RFP development ... however, they are not "towers". These projects are adding life to the central core, but there is still the absence of the corporate/business presence. That's the point that you and a few others seem to be missing.
Sure, downtown has improved significantly in the last decade, but building a few 5 to 10 story buildings is pretty small townish for the nation's sixth largest city. There should be more 40, 50, 60 story highrises going up, which could be a mix of residences, business, and hotels. Add more nightlife, shopping, and eateries at the ground level, and downtown could really be the thriving urban center many of us hope for.
The Barrister project, including the 100 year old historic structure, will be another revitalization project which will be benefit the area, as will the Fillmore RFP development ... however, they are not "towers". These projects are adding life to the central core, but there is still the absence of the corporate/business presence. That's the point that you and a few others seem to be missing.
Sure, downtown has improved significantly in the last decade, but building a few 5 to 10 story buildings is pretty small townish for the nation's sixth largest city. There should be more 40, 50, 60 story highrises going up, which could be a mix of residences, business, and hotels. Add more nightlife, shopping, and eateries at the ground level, and downtown could really be the thriving urban center many of us hope for.
And the point you and others seem to be missing is that a 60-story office tower DOES NOTHING to improve the energy/nightlife/entertainment options for a downtown with it's massive footprint, ground floor lobby w/ no public use, dead zones on all sides of the building, and its workers heading home to the suburbs after their 9-5 job.
It's a classic egg/chicken scenario. Right now, what Phoenix is going through is a massive influx of residents moving back to the core. With that, you need new businesses to provide for the thousands of net new residents. At some point, employers will realize that a majority of the population resides in the urban core and then hopefully will result of an influx of employers relocating back to downtown. Sprouts and GoDaddy building a couple of towers downtown will do nothing to help achieve a 24/7 nightlife. Have you ever been to the CBD of San Francisco?? It's dead at night and the surrounding areas of SF are where it's thriving and what feels like a "real city".
The Barrister project, including the 100 year old historic structure, will be another revitalization project which will be benefit the area, as will the Fillmore RFP development ... however, they are not "towers". These projects are adding life to the central core, but there is still the absence of the corporate/business presence. That's the point that you and a few others seem to be missing.
Sure, downtown has improved significantly in the last decade, but building a few 5 to 10 story buildings is pretty small townish for the nation's sixth largest city. There should be more 40, 50, 60 story highrises going up, which could be a mix of residences, business, and hotels. Add more nightlife, shopping, and eateries at the ground level, and downtown could really be the thriving urban center many of us hope for.
40,50 & 60 story buildings are expensive to live in - just the maintenance/HOA fees on a condo in the sky can easily top $1k a month- exclusive of property taxes & parking fees. For the few who prefer that type of living, it's available - but there's no basis to claim that "everyone", "most of us" or even a significant minority of people crave living like that. I'd rather have 7,600 sq feet of actual dirt that I *own* under my house & around it for my dog to poop on. If the free market actually craves skyscraper living, then it'll happen as the free market can pay for it. For the past few decades, the people have spoken with their wallets & chose "cookie cutter" stucco boxes in and around the metro, in numbers far too large to ignore or marginalize.
40,50 & 60 story buildings are expensive to live in - just the maintenance/HOA fees on a condo in the sky can easily top $1k a month- exclusive of property taxes & parking fees. For the few who prefer that type of living, it's available - but there's no basis to claim that "everyone", "most of us" or even a significant minority of people crave living like that. I'd rather have 7,600 sq feet of actual dirt that I *own* under my house & around it for my dog to poop on. If the free market actually craves skyscraper living, then it'll happen as the free market can pay for it. For the past few decades, the people have spoken with their wallets & chose "cookie cutter" stucco boxes in and around the metro, in numbers far too large to ignore or marginalize.
You are so right downtown is terrible, just ASU and a few arenas. That's why rental rates are now the highest in the valley and companies keep moving there. That's why 3 new hotels opened this year and 6,000 or so new residential units are under construction or being planned.
Are you stuck in 2002? Because you're talking about Phoenix of 15 years ago....
Residential Development:
• Recently opened: 440 units (410 apartments, 30 town-homes)
• Under construction: 2,033 units (1,758 apartments, 275 condominiums)
• Pre-development 2,617 units (2,468 apartments, 149 condominiums)
• City RFP process-approximately 900 units in 3 proposals
**This total is nearly 6,000 housing units which is almost as many as the total number of housing
units in Downtown at the beginning of 2015**
Commercial Development:
Downtown Phoenix achieved a benchmark in 2016, receiving 122,220 square feet of repurposed office space in the fourth quarter and marking the first time new inventory has been added to the submarket since 2010. Situated in the fast-growing Warehouse District at 515 E. Grant St., the redeveloped warehouse is currently 100 percent pre-leased and will be the future home for tech start-ups WebPT and Galvanize.
New Large Developments in the works:
Central Park East an 11 story hotel along 1st Street and 17-story residential building on Central.
enHance is starting Phase 2 of 3. 7 stories at 1st and Portland
Renaissance Hotel renovation.
Block 23 aka the Fry's Development is set to be around 232' tall
the Derby development at around 250'
the Stewart at about 220'
I know exactly where rental rates are, seeing as I used to live there. It was overpriced when I lived there. The same unit I lived in is now going for $150/month more than when I moved in 2014. Completely obnoxious. For a downtown that is as dead as downtown Phoenix is most of the time, the rates that are being asked are ridiculous. The amenities that are in a real urban city are almost completely absent from downtown Phoenix. Aside from a convention or a sports event, downtown is dead relative to any other city with a comparable population. Phoenix has as many people as Philadelphia. Compare Center City Philadelphia with Downtown Phoenix and then tell me how awesome Downtown Phoenix is. Not one of Philly's major league sports teams plays in Center City (downtown) Philadelphia and their downtown is 10 times more active than Phoenix on a game day. Read the article that the OP posted and note that DT Phoenix is not attracting major employers like comparably sized cities. Aside from Alliance "tower" at Cityscape, how many commercial highrises have been constructed downtown in the past 15 years? One. That, to me, does not indicate the comeback of a downtown in the nation's 5th or 6th largest city. The fact is that the outskirts are continuing to attract employers. Downtown Phoenix is obsolete and has a tremendous journey ahead before it actually has a halfway decent downtown. I'm convinced that the only people who think Phoenix has a great downtown are people from small towns or people who had the misfortune of living here when Phoenix's downtown was really in the dumps.
As I have stated on this forum in the past, I don't take any proposed development seriously until there is moving dirt. We were promised the "Pin" tower downtown in time for the Superbowl. There's nothing to show for that. We were promised the 34-story Central Station "tower" in DT Phoenix. There's nothing to show for that. The Jackson Street Entertainment District that was planned 10 years ago went nowhere. Cityscape, which was supposed to be this massive development, turned out to be two lackluster highrises and a completely inward facing retail complex with stores that are constantly overturning due to lack of business. The Circle Records building, which was supposed to be transformed into a 19-story apartment building still sits as a lot with a half demolished, vacant building. The "transformation" of downtown has been a series of new 4-5 story complexes that all look alike with half vacant, if not completely vacant, ground floor retail. The RFP to transform the Knipe House on north of Roosevelt has gone nowhere. So, frankly, I have trouble believing that any of these proposals will go anywhere until there's actual construction equipment on site.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64
Don't you commute along the 303 and use it as a basis for our lack of traffic?
I've never lived along the 303 corridor. I now live in Goodyear and use the 10 to commute into Midtown Phoenix daily. The slowing between 75th Avenue and my exit at 7th Avenue is laughable compared to any other major city. The only holdup now is the people who have to gawk at the South Mountain Freeway construction work going on between 51st and 67th avenues and the people who slam on their brakes at the sight of the any flashing lights. Otherwise flowing at anywhere between 20-55 MPH with occasional stopping doesn't bother me. If it was like any other major city with constant stop and go, I might have an issue. Traffic here is a gross overreaction by people from small towns. Spend time in LA and tell me how awful traffic is here.
I know exactly where rental rates are, seeing as I used to live there. It was overpriced when I lived there. The same unit I lived in is now going for $150/month more than when I moved in 2014. Completely obnoxious. For a downtown that is as dead as downtown Phoenix is most of the time, the rates that are being asked are ridiculous. The amenities that are in a real urban city are almost completely absent from downtown Phoenix. Aside from a convention or a sports event, downtown is dead relative to any other city with a comparable population. Phoenix has as many people as Philadelphia. Compare Center City Philadelphia with Downtown Phoenix and then tell me how awesome Downtown Phoenix is. Not one of Philly's major league sports teams plays in Center City (downtown) Philadelphia and their downtown is 10 times more active than Phoenix on a game day. Read the article that the OP posted and note that DT Phoenix is not attracting major employers like comparably sized cities. Aside from Alliance "tower" at Cityscape, how many commercial highrises have been constructed downtown in the past 15 years? One. That, to me, does not indicate the comeback of a downtown in the nation's 5th or 6th largest city. The fact is that the outskirts are continuing to attract employers. Downtown Phoenix is obsolete and has a tremendous journey ahead before it actually has a halfway decent downtown. I'm convinced that the only people who think Phoenix has a great downtown are people from small towns or people who had the misfortune of living here when Phoenix's downtown was really in the dumps.
As I have stated on this forum in the past, I don't take any proposed development seriously until there is moving dirt. We were promised the "Pin" tower downtown in time for the Superbowl. There's nothing to show for that. We were promised the 34-story Central Station "tower" in DT Phoenix. There's nothing to show for that. The Jackson Street Entertainment District that was planned 10 years ago went nowhere. Cityscape, which was supposed to be this massive development, turned out to be two lackluster highrises and a completely inward facing retail complex with stores that are constantly overturning due to lack of business. The Circle Records building, which was supposed to be transformed into a 19-story apartment building still sits as a lot with a half demolished, vacant building. The "transformation" of downtown has been a series of new 4-5 story complexes that all look alike with half vacant, if not completely vacant, ground floor retail. The RFP to transform the Knipe House on north of Roosevelt has gone nowhere. So, frankly, I have trouble believing that any of these proposals will go anywhere until there's actual construction equipment on site.
If you think downtown rental rates in Phoenix are ridiculous go try your beloved Philadelphia on for size, see what kind of bargain you get there. Businesses locating in the suburbs over urban centers has been a trend since the 1970's and is exactly when Phoenix came to be a large city, so if you want to play the blame game, blame yourself for choosing to go live in Goodyear because things didn't move fast enough and you didn't get the 2-dozen 60' high-rises in 10 years you think should have happened.
Nobody said Phoenix was comparable to a city that's been inhabited for nearly 400 years on the East coast, it's called history, and things change over time. What we all said is that Phoenix has improved and most of us are multi-dimensional enough to recognize progress when it's being made.
I'm convinced people with attitudes like yourself have never lived in one of these big cities that you think is all that, I also don't think most of us want to see Phoenix turn into that. I'd like to see something more along the lines of Portland or Denver, supertall buildings are cool, but add little value for the urban core. Ever walked around Lower Manhattan at night? Pretty damn dead. What I like to see in Phoenix is the type of density going on near Roosevelt Row, pulling in more and more residents will lead to more and more businesses moving nearby, which we are finally starting to see.
Now take a step back to Phoenix and 1990 and try to tell us long-timers that Phoenix hasn't improved drastically.
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