What are the pros/cons to new (90s to now) construction vs. older but not historic construction (40s-80s)? (Phoenix: apartments, for rent)

[Vision67]

I grew up in Phoenix in a brick house built in 1951. Back then, the interior walls had plaster layered directly over the bricks. That gave a very poor thermal performance.

I remember that the walls inside were always cold in the winter and hot in summer. They should have built a frame construction on the outside of the bricks with R-18 insulation to put the thermal mass of the bricks inside the structure...oh well.

The windows were steel framed multi panes that cranked out. The crank out handles were always falling off.

Our floors were stained concrete. It wasn't until later that we had the living room and parents rooms carpeted.

Our kitchen had one electrical outlet for the refrigerator, one for the toaster and one for a radio. That's it. The total number of electrical outlets was small, I bet the house had less than a 100 amp panel. Kitchen stove and oven was gas.

All water pipes were galvanized steel; they eventually corroded. They were run through the attic and down the interior walls; it took forever to have the drinking water get cool.

Cooling was from a swamp box cooler that worked until the July monsoons came. As a kid, I remember being awake at midnight in July when it was unbearably hot lying in a pool of sweat trying to get to sleep.

In about 1959 one of my friends got air conditioning in their house. I remember his mother whispering (people in those days thought it was rude to discuss money) in my ear that it cost $1 per day!! to run the AC.

Would I want to live in that house now?

No Way!

[DetroitN8V]

My 1990s house seems poorly built, has subpar insulation and was likely built very rapidly. In contrast, a friend's older ranch home seems to be much better insulated and the construction just feels more solid. Purely anecdotal, but you can tell the difference in construction quality.

[DougStark]

Energy efficiency has improved over the years (obviously.) However, you'll even find nice homes built as late as the 90s with single-pane windows! Unbelievable for this hot climate. There was obviously no building code or public demand for energy efficient windows back then.

My 1991 built home has inadequate attic insulation but came with dual pane windows (although almost all of them have failed since.)

If I was going to buy new today, I'd buy an Energy Star certified home for sure.

[asufan]

Originally Posted by Prickly Pear

To me the ranch homes (which I live in) and the mid-century moderns of North Central Phoenix have cohesive floor plans. I feel that they aren't necessarily "closed" floor plans but not entirely open floor plan either so maybe that is where points are taken off. For an example my kitchen (which is decent size is not ginormous still cohesive for a Thanksgiving dinner) has an island attached that shares space with a formal living room with a fireplace. Then through a small archway through the kitchen there is the dining room and another family room which is kinda separated being a stair or two lower in the house (open but creates divide you know?) Along with the main entry. The garage being off the formal living room and all four bedrooms including the master and bathrooms are off down one singular hallway down the other side of the house. My laundry is in a small hallway that you have to get through to enter the garage. My house is probably around 300k or so worth and is a cute block construction (also something you will never find in new construction) with a courtyard and an Arizona room (also known as sun rooms, screened in patios). Courtyards and sun rooms aren't as common either.

To me I kinda like the idea of having the bedrooms sort of together in one wing. I feel like it creates more space for common living areas. I noticed this is not as much of a thing in the newer homes. Also if you like TV and the walls are almost always paper thin (or my hearing is too good) you can put the TV on the far side of the house away from bedrooms.

I also prefer single story homes which in the new homes it's hard to get a decently sized house without building up because the new lots are so small. Unless you are building custom but that's not what I'm referring to here.

Contrary to greatschools many of the inland schools are not as poor as they say. For an example I looked up Sunnyslope High out of curiosity which is a really good high school for Phoenix (tons of programs) and it's rated poorly.

One thing I will give the new areas of town are that roads aren't so funky. Where I live the right lanes (going east or west) are at an incline so you have to hold your steering wheel turning slightly left so you don't drive off into someone's house and over the sidewalk. This is very problematic in the monsoon floods, where my 4x4 SUV ALMOST (didn't luckily but almost) got caught with the incoming river which was the entire right lane and I was making a right turn from the middle lane, as that is the only way to get into my neighborhood is through these two sort of hilled roads. I don't see that in newer areas of town and I only see that in roads that are within a 1 mile radius of a canal (I live two blocks from a canal) so that's not all over the place.

You say you don't like split floorplans but don't mention if you have kids or not (the whole attraction to split floorplans is to keep the kids on the other side of the house so parents don't hear kids and vice versa).

In regards to the benefits of newer construction, I'll go with higher ceilings, more functional floorplans and energy efficiency as my positives.

[Bird Street]

I have always lived in a house built in the fifties. The rooms are smaller and more functional for me. The master bedroom is a little larger than the other bedrooms but no amusement park-size like new homes. I like not having a great room. It's nice having a private kitchen where you can conceal the mess and sit down to eat. I like the history of an older neighborhood. There used to be times I could sense people who lived in my house; births, deaths, happiness and sadness. I believe that houses can have a soul. Spring is coming and the new families of birds will be very visible. Baby chickens, peacocks and guinea fowl will be out with their moms in the street.

[ElleTea]

I've lived in brand new, as in I chose the details and watched it being built, and I have lived in older places. I have always much preferred older homes, and it cracks me up to hear people here say their house is old because it was built in the 1990's. I hear it all the time. My last house before I moved here was a 1925 bungalow and I just loved it. I much prefer a not open floor plan, I like the kitchen as more of a separate room, not one giant "studio apartment" feeling that open concept homes seem to have. Older homes also have more character and usually have built-ins that newer homes just don't.

As far as low ceilings, IME older homes generally have 7-9' ceilings (my 1925 home had 9'). That could be different in Phoenix (I doubt it), but old houses don't automatically equal low ceilings. Growing up we lived in a house built in around 1912 that also had 9' ceilings, yet my brand new place mentioned above had lower ones...7 or 8', I can't remember exactly.

I also prefer an older neighborhood where the houses tend to look more different than each other over newer, generally suburban homes, where house after house is exactly the same boring thing, especially in the SW where everyone seems to use the same can of beige to paint the exterior.

[ShampooBanana]

For homes built from the 60's until at least the early 2000s it depends a lot on who the builder was and where it was built. Some builders were/are on the forefront of energy efficiency and pride themselves on quality construction more than others. Obviously the price level plays a part in that, as well. For instance,you won't likely find 2x6 construction on homes under $400k in most parts of town and some builders use spray foam insulation whereas others use regular rolled fiberglass or blown cellulose, some without radiant barriers. Whether a home was built in Phoenix or an outlying municipality (or he county) plays a role, too. Some have higher building code standards than others and some are more vigilant about code enforcement and issuing certificates of occupancy only if homes have been inspected and meet certain standards. Standards are more strict now, though, than they were in the 80s or 90s and especially as compared to the 70s and earlier. That's mostly with regards to things like electrical systems, plumbing systems, HVAC, etc. and less to do with quality of framing and such. I feel like overall the 70s and 80s were a low point for overall quality but they've gradually improved since then, mostly as a factor or the higher required standards and consumer demand for higher quality and energy efficiency, which many are willing to pay for. The average mid-level home built today is actually of a pretty high quality and is very efficient, and even the lower end entry level homes are of a quality equal to a mid-level home of only 15 years ago.

[Minntoaz]

Why new? Because we are working professionals, about to start having kids and we don't want to devote our lives to a "fixer upper". For what we will pay on our new buy we could buy a much bigger home further out. Most Millenials prefer time... we are not workaholics like our parents.

Also it's better for rental purposes.

[JGMotorsport64]

My home was built in 1958, Ranch Style, sump block with brick accents. I love it, but there are things I like about newer homes. For example my bathrooms are too small, my windows are too thin, my ceilings could be higher etc. I don't have an hoa which is great, but some people around me could use an hoa to slap them into taking better care of their yards.

But the build quality is second to none.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by DougStark

Energy efficiency has improved over the years (obviously.) However, you'll even find nice homes built as late as the 90s with single-pane windows! Unbelievable for this hot climate. There was obviously no building code or public demand for energy efficient windows back then.

My 1991 built home has inadequate attic insulation but came with dual pane windows (although almost all of them have failed since.)

If I was going to buy new today, I'd buy an Energy Star certified home for sure.

FWIW, single pane windows don't matter much in this climate. Not enough heat "delta" to make convective heat gain an issue. Look for low-e glass (resistance to radiant heat gain). It's much more important. There's a lot of dual panes around the late 90's early 2000's that are just plain window glass and are little better than one pane and much less valuable than the shade screens that were standard in older homes are. In fact, shade screens are much lower "e" than anything plated onto your glass.

While we are on windows, that is an area where older and new home differ. There has been a trend to ever large window size in newer homes. Older homes tend to be a lot darker. Some new homes almost have a window wall on the back side. That can be a killer energy wise especially if it is on the west side. No glass or shade screen can compare to a wall for insulating purposes.