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Ive been down this road in Chicago with the Hawks. Despite being an Original 6 team, and having a massive fan base, the Hawks floundered for years. It wasn't that they had a bad team, and it wasn't the fact that Bill Wirtz was making it rough on the fans. It was a combination of things. Ill tell you right now that it takes than a quality team on the ice to bring fans. You can spout that all day long as being the main cause of empty seats, but at the end of the day its a combination of things: location, venue, team, and advertising. The Hawks have been around since 1926, and up until 2010 we only had 3 piddly Cups to show for ourselves. Pathetic! The Yotes are a relatively young team (longevity-wise) and have done decently well, making several appearances in the Playoffs. I think PHX looks at success stories like the Dbacks and Cards making many postseason appearances and even a WS victory, and expect the same of the Yotes? I dunno. Personally I think a new stadium in the East Valley, coupled with new front management and the willingness to spend money on talent will bring success to the Coyotes.
Lets look at the things that made the Hawks the dynasty they are today, and tell me it wouldn't apply directly to the Coyotes:
1) new stadium - the old Chicago Stadium was torn down and the United Center behemoth was erected. The Hawks set attendance records for several consecutive years, despite a losing record. People apparently like new stadiums. I bet the same will ring true for the Coyotes. Make the stadium traditional and hockey-specific only! Don't gaudy it up like designs in the Valley tend to get. Study old Holy Grail stadiums like Chicago Stadium, MSG, etc, and make it invoke images of the glory days of hockey. That will attract old timers (read: the ones who spend the money) and make a name for PHX as a great place to watch a game. It speaks volumes to fans. One needs to look no further than places like Heinz Field in Pittsburgh (Pirates stadium) to see how to properly build a modern stadium that replicates the historic past. And guess what? Heinz Field is usually ranked as the best place to watch a ballgame in all of sports, including over Wrigley and Fenway. Make our rink/stadium simple, clean, effective, and it will gain accolades around the country.
2) Bill Wirtz passed and Rocky took over. They hired on John McDonough from the Cubs and started spending money. Talent like Toews, Kane, Seabrook, and Keith (amongst many others) were added (right before Bill's death), and within a year the Hawks were competitors again.
3) Advertising - the Hawks ran full page ads in the Tribune and Sun Times. They aired commercials on all major networks proclaiming "hockey is back in Chicago". All I see are some lame billboards around the Valley for the Yotes, and some cheesy radio station commercials. I think Ive seen one tv ad? Whatever the case, its not enough. There are TONS of hockey fans here in PHX. Take advantage of that!!! Send out an advertising "team" if you will to the local hotspots where fans gather to watch their old home teams play on tv (Cold Beers & Cheeseburgers is a good start). Give promotional items out, especially to the youngsters. Go to the Ice Den and do the same. Tickets don't sell themselves here in PHX, apparently. So its time to get out and promote!
But Talking Stick Resort isn't the only place in the East Valley where you can put an arena. The problem with a Talking Stick Resort location is that it excludes the fanbase in Chandler, Gilbert, and Ahwatukee due to distance. It should be more centrally located in the East Valley, which is why I suggested putting it near the Phoenix Rising FC soccer complex on the south edge of the reservation.
Have figures ever been released that break-down the East Valley numbers further? I would like to see the distribution among EV cities and what cities make up the highest %. If majority is in Scottsdale and 10-20% make-up the Gilbert/Chandler population, then it doesn't really make sense to appease such a small population base. Also, let's not forget the corporate world and sponsors and big dollar suites. Any new stadium should be located where they can get an influx of corporate money. That being said, the no-brainer location is still downtown Phoenix.
Here is season ticket holders breakdown for the Coyotes (taken from other 'Yotes thread):
Coyotes’ season-ticket buyer breakdown
Premium 1 glass seats: east side 87%; west side 13%
Ive been down this road in Chicago with the Hawks. Despite being an Original 6 team, and having a massive fan base, the Hawks floundered for years. It wasn't that they had a bad team, and it wasn't the fact that Bill Wirtz was making it rough on the fans. It was a combination of things. Ill tell you right now that it takes than a quality team on the ice to bring fans. You can spout that all day long as being the main cause of empty seats, but at the end of the day its a combination of things: location, venue, team, and advertising. The Hawks have been around since 1926, and up until 2010 we only had 3 piddly Cups to show for ourselves. Pathetic! The Yotes are a relatively young team (longevity-wise) and have done decently well, making several appearances in the Playoffs. I think PHX looks at success stories like the Dbacks and Cards making many postseason appearances and even a WS victory, and expect the same of the Yotes? I dunno. Personally I think a new stadium in the East Valley, coupled with new front management and the willingness to spend money on talent will bring success to the Coyotes.
Lets look at the things that made the Hawks the dynasty they are today, and tell me it wouldn't apply directly to the Coyotes:
1) new stadium - the old Chicago Stadium was torn down and the United Center behemoth was erected. The Hawks set attendance records for several consecutive years, despite a losing record. People apparently like new stadiums. I bet the same will ring true for the Coyotes. Make the stadium traditional and hockey-specific only! Don't gaudy it up like designs in the Valley tend to get. Study old Holy Grail stadiums like Chicago Stadium, MSG, etc, and make it invoke images of the glory days of hockey. That will attract old timers (read: the ones who spend the money) and make a name for PHX as a great place to watch a game. It speaks volumes to fans. One needs to look no further than places like Heinz Field in Pittsburgh (Pirates stadium) to see how to properly build a modern stadium that replicates the historic past. And guess what? Heinz Field is usually ranked as the best place to watch a ballgame in all of sports, including over Wrigley and Fenway. Make our rink/stadium simple, clean, effective, and it will gain accolades around the country.
2) Bill Wirtz passed and Rocky took over. They hired on John McDonough from the Cubs and started spending money. Talent like Toews, Kane, Seabrook, and Keith (amongst many others) were added (right before Bill's death), and within a year the Hawks were competitors again.
3) Advertising - the Hawks ran full page ads in the Tribune and Sun Times. They aired commercials on all major networks proclaiming "hockey is back in Chicago". All I see are some lame billboards around the Valley for the Yotes, and some cheesy radio station commercials. I think Ive seen one tv ad? Whatever the case, its not enough. There are TONS of hockey fans here in PHX. Take advantage of that!!! Send out an advertising "team" if you will to the local hotspots where fans gather to watch their old home teams play on tv (Cold Beers & Cheeseburgers is a good start). Give promotional items out, especially to the youngsters. Go to the Ice Den and do the same. Tickets don't sell themselves here in PHX, apparently. So its time to get out and promote!
Bravo, well said. This thread may be closed now!
Winning isn't everything. Look at the DBacks right now, they're offense is explosive, pitching is outstanding, and one of the top teams in the MLB. And they set a lowest attendance record just last week! Granted it's a weeknight game and against crappy Padres, but just winning won't bring the fans and it's combination of other things like Big Cat said.
Have figures ever been released that break-down the East Valley numbers further? I would like to see the distribution among EV cities and what cities make up the highest %. If majority is in Scottsdale and 10-20% make-up the Gilbert/Chandler population, then it doesn't really make sense to appease such a small population base. Also, let's not forget the corporate world and sponsors and big dollar suites. Any new stadium should be located where they can get an influx of corporate money. That being said, the no-brainer location is still downtown Phoenix.
Here is season ticket holders breakdown for the Coyotes (taken from other 'Yotes thread):
Which I don't think it is as high as 80% Scottsdale residents. I would say it is more like 50% Scottsdale/PV, 30% Chandler/Gilbert, 10% Tempe, 5% Mesa, 3% Ahwatukee, and 2% other East Valley cities.
Let's be real, SRR is likely one of the last hopes we have to keeping the team here. Public funding is pretty much a lost cause and the team has continually stated they will not stay where they are. That leaves few other options here in the valley.
There are plenty of other options besides SRR. If the team decides to move to the east Valley, why not have an arena somewhere in a more urbanized location, such as near Old Town Scottsdale or downtown Tempe? This is the point I've been trying to make: the SRR is still limited on infrastructure ... and if we put major sports/entertainment complexes there, it's going to require more tax money to widen and/or add streets, improve public transit, upgrade or install water & sewer lines, etc., etc. All this wouldn't be necessary if it was downtown where it belongs!
I have no problem with casinos or shopping centers on the SRR. In this case, we're not talking about a new Costco supercenter ... we're talking about a major sports facility which puts a national spotlight on the Phoenix area when there are games. A large part of it is the location and image we present. An arena out in no man's land (Westgate or the SRR) is inconvenient for many people. When the spotlight is on the Valley, I don't want the nation to see cotton fields or empty land surrounding the facility.
There are plenty of other options besides SRR. If the team decides to move to the east Valley, why not have an arena somewhere in a more urbanized location, such as near Old Town Scottsdale or downtown Tempe?
If Scottsdale didn't want a new arena built at the old Los Arcos Mall site, it sure as heck would not want to build an arena near Old Town. I think the Yotes should be in downtown Phoenix, but looking back the Los Arcos site would not have been that bad, East Valley, Southern Scottsdale.
SRPM land can be anywhere and I echo other's sentiments here that it should be on the same plot of land as the new FC Rising Complex is. I didn't mind up by Talking Stick Resort but now it make sense to have a cluster of arenas next to each other. Phoenix Rising FC has brought out the big guns and has hired Goldman Sachs to help finance the stadium. Everything is pointing towards Rising being chosen as next MLS franchise.
If the D-Backs decide on building near the Phoenix Rising FC stadium, I don't know if there are room for three facilities there considering the Phoenix Rising FC eventually wants to build a permanent, MLS-sized stadium. Since it appears the Coyotes want a central location, a location up by Talking Stick doesn't seem likely. To build in Tempe or Mesa would require taxpayer funding. Perhaps a location by Casino Arizona would work?
If the D-Backs decide on building near the Phoenix Rising FC stadium, I don't know if there are room for three facilities there considering the Phoenix Rising FC eventually wants to build a permanent, MLS-sized stadium. Since it appears the Coyotes want a central location, a location up by Talking Stick doesn't seem likely. To build in Tempe or Mesa would require taxpayer funding. Perhaps a location by Casino Arizona would work?
The DBacks current downtown location is perfectly fine, and they DO NOT ... I REPEAT ... DO NOT need to be vacating Chase Field & building another stadium! Most of all, any new sports complex (regardless if it's NFL, NHL, MLB, NBA, or whatever) should not be on tribal land or in some distant suburban landscape. What is it with this push to move sports & entertainment to tribal land? There is no existing sufficient infrastructure that can support these kinds of things, including no mass transit, which is plentiful in downtown Phoenix. That was precisely one of the problems with Westgate, and why it was a boondoggle. Glendale pushed the expense of their mistake down taxpayers' throats, and it has been a losing deal ever since. Why have we not learned from Glendale's horrible error???
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