How's Infill Going? (Phoenix, Mesa, Glendale: 2015, apartments, condo)

[DTWtoPHX]

Hey everyone,

Was on this forum some months ago for AZ living tips and advice, but decided on FL. Some months later, I'm back, because AZ (or anywhere out west while I'm at it) is a smarter move across the board. I had a question about what's referred to as "infill" development, which means redeveloping the city core, empty lots and densifying the landscape. How's PHX doing on that? There are a lot of pricey condo projects that I've heard of which are nice, I've also heard about some cool developments downtown (woohoo for Block 23 and The Link). But is it really densifying? Is it rapidly becoming more of an attraction, or is suburbia still king?

After looking at FL for a while (specifically Miami-Fort Lauderdale), I've come to expect a certain level of walkability and attractions from a city I'm moving to. PHX isn't coastal, but it's urban areas and surrounding downtowns (Scottsdale, Tempe) are undeniably impressive. I'm also impressed at Gilbert's Heritage District, and the Epicenter at Agritopia has peaked my interest, along with Westgate in Glendale. Overall, I think PHX will be a great place for me.

How would you rate Phoenix's urban growth?

[Thomasaz]

Mostly suburban. It's getting better, but there's room for improvement still. The places you mentoined like Agritopia are extremely suburban and far from downtown Phoenix. I'm not sure what you have in mind exactly. If you're living in Gilbert where the Heritage District and Agritopia are then you probably shouldn't be too concerned by the urbanization of Phoenix because of the distance. If you live in Gilbert then you pretty much won't experience much of a walkable environment. Yes those places you mentioned have some shops and restaurants in a walking environment, but these areas are quite small.

[AZ Manager]

Walkability and 100+ degree days, the majority of our summer with the 120 peaks, are in direct conflict with each other. The majority of the valley won't ever be highly walkable so if that is your desire then you really are limited and it won't change much over the next 30-49 years. Most city plans zone for low to medium density and even small changes to that bring out a lot of protest.

Even if you lived within a mile you won't be walking to a shop/whatever very often once the summer rolls around.

[HX_Guy]

Originally Posted by AZ Manager

Walkability and 100+ degree days, the majority of our summer with the 120 peaks, are in direct conflict with each other. The majority of the valley won't ever be highly walkable so if that is your desire then you really are limited and it won't change much over the next 30-49 years. Most city plans zone for low to medium density and even small changes to that bring out a lot of protest.

Even if you lived within a mile you won't be walking to a shop/whatever very often once the summer rolls around.

Why do people over exaggerate so much when it comes to Phoenix summer temps? Or is it more what it feels like to you?

I just looked up daily temps for summer 2017...

The average high temperature in June was 105º, there were 11 days at 110º+.
The average high temperature in July was also 105º, with 8 days at 110º+.
The average high temperature in August was 100º, with only 3 days reaching 110º or more.
The average high temperature in September was 98º, with one day at 110º and most days in the upper 90s.

I dont know even if you can say that the majority of our summer with 110º peaks, let alone 120º. Maybe about a third of the summer reaches peaks of 110º or more.

https://www.wunderground.com/history...ic=&reqdb.wmo=

[AZ Manager]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

Why do people over exaggerate so much when it comes to Phoenix summer temps? Or is it more what it feels like to you?

I just looked up daily temps for summer 2017...

The average high temperature in June was 105º, there were 11 days at 110º+.
The average high temperature in July was also 105º, with 8 days at 110º+.
The average high temperature in August was 100º, with only 3 days reaching 110º or more.
The average high temperature in September was 98º, with one day at 110º and most days in the upper 90s.

I dont know even if you can say that the majority of our summer with 110º peaks, let alone 120º. Maybe about a third of the summer reaches peaks of 110º or more.

https://www.wunderground.com/history...ic=&reqdb.wmo=

Well what I said and what you quoted was 100+ degree days so I'm not sure why you are going on about 110s. Our hottest day (the peak) this year and 2013 was 119, last year was 118, 2015 was 117, and 2012 & 2014 was 116 so you got me on that slight over exaggeration... We average 110 days a year with temps above 100 degrees, which is the majority if not all of the summer and what I said. You can expect to stay above 100 degrees every day from the end of May into the beginning of September with few exceptions.

AZ Central has June 2017 average high at 107.9

[HX_Guy]

Maybe I misread that...I took it to mean that there are 100+ hot days, with the majority hitting peaks of 120º.
I guess it was more 100+ days, with the majority of them over 100º and peaks of 120º?

Carry on!

[locolife]

Originally Posted by AZ Manager

Walkability and 100+ degree days, the majority of our summer with the 120 peaks, are in direct conflict with each other. The majority of the valley won't ever be highly walkable so if that is your desire then you really are limited and it won't change much over the next 30-49 years. Most city plans zone for low to medium density and even small changes to that bring out a lot of protest.

Even if you lived within a mile you won't be walking to a shop/whatever very often once the summer rolls around.

No major metro area in the US has a majority of it that’s walkable so the notion that someone is looking for such a place is an odd statement to make. We have a handful of walkable areas like most major cities and they’re improving night and day from where they were just 5-10 years ago, infill is going crazy in Tempe, downtown Phoenix and Old Town Scottsdale to a lesser extent. 2 of these areas have urban grocery stores under construction right now which will further improv walkability of both. It’s never been better here.

Next, do you think walking around NY, Chicago or Boston all winter is a joy? When the windchill is below 0 and any inch of exposed skin hurts? No, but they’re walkable nonetheless and our heat is not a real excuse either, chores can at least be done at night or early in the morning here during our bad months, that option doesn’t exist in winter cities.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by DTWtoPHX

Hey everyone,

Was on this forum some months ago for AZ living tips and advice, but decided on FL. Some months later, I'm back, because AZ (or anywhere out west while I'm at it) is a smarter move across the board. I had a question about what's referred to as "infill" development, which means redeveloping the city core, empty lots and densifying the landscape. How's PHX doing on that? There are a lot of pricey condo projects that I've heard of which are nice, I've also heard about some cool developments downtown (woohoo for Block 23 and The Link). But is it really densifying? Is it rapidly becoming more of an attraction, or is suburbia still king?

After looking at FL for a while (specifically Miami-Fort Lauderdale), I've come to expect a certain level of walkability and attractions from a city I'm moving to. PHX isn't coastal, but it's urban areas and surrounding downtowns (Scottsdale, Tempe) are undeniably impressive. I'm also impressed at Gilbert's Heritage District, and the Epicenter at Agritopia has peaked my interest, along with Westgate in Glendale. Overall, I think PHX will be a great place for me.

How would you rate Phoenix's urban growth?

We're definitely doing better in this regard with many new residential projects (both condo & apartment) under construction along the light rail corridor along Central Avenue in Phoenix, Apache Boulevard in Tempe, and Main Street in Mesa. There are also some pockets of increased density elsewhere in Scottsdale, the Biltmore Area, and a big (and controversial) project proposed for North Central Phoenix.

As for walkability, that's improving but still has a way to go. Some of the very same projects that have added density also have a great deal of bundled (no extra cost to residents) parking, taking up space and diminishing the incentive to choose non-automotive modes. Some also have long, uninteresting facades that reduce the appeal of their blocks as pedestrian corridors. Others have chosen palms instead of shadier species of trees to address the heat issues mentioned above. Still, it's progress to have so much new housing within walking distance of transit, employers, and businesses.

[new2colo]

Originally Posted by Thomasaz

Mostly suburban. It's getting better, but there's room for improvement still. The places you mentoined like Agritopia are extremely suburban and far from downtown Phoenix. I'm not sure what you have in mind exactly. If you're living in Gilbert where the Heritage District and Agritopia are then you probably shouldn't be too concerned by the urbanization of Phoenix because of the distance. If you live in Gilbert then you pretty much won't experience much of a walkable environment. Yes those places you mentioned have some shops and restaurants in a walking environment, but these areas are quite small.

The developers of Agritopia are about to begin construction on the second phase of the community, which will make it another relatively dense "urban suburban" center. It will feature 300K square feet of multifamily residential and 54K square feet a restaurant and commercial space. It's certainly not "urban" by even Tempe or Phoenix standards, but it will be a deviation from the typical stucco schlock with the auto-oriented commercial strip malls on all corners.

[Thomasaz]

Originally Posted by new2colo

The developers of Agritopia are about to begin construction on the second phase of the community, which will make it another relatively dense "urban suburban" center. It will feature 300K square feet of multifamily residential and 54K square feet a restaurant and commercial space. It's certainly not "urban" by even Tempe or Phoenix standards, but it will be a deviation from the typical stucco schlock with the auto-oriented commercial strip malls on all corners.

I'm aware of that development. It's admittedly better than most housing/neighborhood developments, but it still pales in comparison to what you'd find in a well established central area of cities, including some suburban ones too.