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When teachers choose their profession they do it knowing they will never get rich on their salary. Like any other profession they need to accept this or work toward moving into administration. Sorry I do not believe in teachers depriving their students of school because they feel cheated.
Agreed ... however, many teachers actually like their line of work, and don't wish to be in administration. With that said, if they still want to be teachers but desire a higher salary, they should seriously consider looking into a reputable private school. Some private institutions actually offer much better pay & benefits. Plus, the educational experience is usually far superior, and disciplinary codes tend to be more strictly enforced.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa
Ducey came through with a proposal but his funding sources were gutting everything else that is also short funded already to pay for it. Arizona needs to face up to the fact that being last in education funding and teacher pay is not a badge of honor. It is devastating to our chances at attracting new businesses and entrepreneurial startups. It hurts our property values. If it means new taxes then so be it. We will all benefit more than the few bucks we will have to chip in. #RedforEd
So you're willing to pay more in taxes (including property taxes) to fund teachers' salaries and schools in general? Keep in mind that many of us do not want higher property taxes because of potential financial hardships. We pay enough as it is every year: 60 to 70% on education alone. The most important thing to keep in mind is that higher taxes will not guarantee better schools. We've seen the examples over the last 18 years or so with several ballot initiatives which were passed that raised taxes to supposedly improve the public schools, but the bulk of the money goes to administration, and the quality has only gotten worse. All you're doing with higher taxes is stuffing more of your hard earned money into a giant black hole.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Returning2USA
AZ is a sh*thole when it comes to education.
Let's just tell it like it is.
Can't disagree with that, but raising taxes & throwing more money at the problem is not the answer. My suggestion to those who keep pushing increased funding & higher taxes is: pay for it yourself! If you have such a strong determination to improve the schools, dust the cobwebs off your checkbooks and start donating your own damn money to the cause! Not all of us want our taxes to be increased for various reasons.
California hasn't had a budget deficit in 5 years, aims to put another 5 billion into their rainy day fund (which would put the fund at 10% of the general fund revenue).
This is without taking into account potential revenue from the cannabis industry, which they project could add an extra $600m in revenue.
You're right. He should be talking about the pension tsunami in CA.
This teacher's "fight" is about more than just pay, it's about power and a political base that is trying to strengthen its position in AZ. They might succeed.
Valley Native - throwing more money indicates money already had been thrown.
The government plays a shell game.
While propositions and increases to funding have been passed, the overall education spend goes down.
Think of it like this. You are managing 100 member association. You have $50 to address area "a" in your standard budget. The association members all agree there needs to be more funding for "a" and each pledge .10 for it. You collect that $10 and then adjust your budget, moving money to other sources, provide large refunds to select members and fund those changes by dropping the $50 you allocated down to $35.
Add in the $10 of earmarked cash and now your spend is $45, despite an effort by your members to increase.
Funding was cut 36.6% between 2008 and 2015.
How is trying to restore funding to 2008 levels throwing "more" money at education?!
That doesn't make sense.
The real question to ask is where did that money that already existed end up going? Why didn't they respect our vote?
You're right. He should be talking about the pension tsunami in CA.
This teacher's "fight" is about more than just pay, it's about power and a political base that is trying to strengthen its position in AZ. They might succeed.
Or it's parents and people like me that are upset that our wishes are ignored, our kids are not prepared and our state suffers.
Agreed ... however, many teachers actually like their line of work, and don't wish to be in administration. With that said, if they still want to be teachers but desire a higher salary, they should seriously consider looking into a reputable private school. Some private institutions actually offer much better pay & benefits. Plus, the educational experience is usually far superior, and disciplinary codes tend to be more strictly enforced.
So you're willing to pay more in taxes (including property taxes) to fund teachers' salaries and schools in general? Keep in mind that many of us do not want higher property taxes because of potential financial hardships. We pay enough as it is every year: 60 to 70% on education alone. The most important thing to keep in mind is that higher taxes will not guarantee better schools. We've seen the examples over the last 18 years or so with several ballot initiatives which were passed that raised taxes to supposedly improve the public schools, but the bulk of the money goes to administration, and the quality has only gotten worse. All you're doing with higher taxes is stuffing more of your hard earned money into a giant black hole.
Can't disagree with that, but raising taxes & throwing more money at the problem is not the answer. My suggestion to those who keep pushing increased funding & higher taxes is: pay for it yourself! If you have such a strong determination to improve the schools, dust the cobwebs off your checkbooks and start donating your own damn money to the cause! Not all of us want our taxes to be increased for various reasons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Laker
Valley Native - throwing more money indicates money already had been thrown.
The government plays a shell game.
While propositions and increases to funding have been passed, the overall education spend goes down.
Think of it like this. You are managing 100 member association. You have $50 to address area "a" in your standard budget. The association members all agree there needs to be more funding for "a" and each pledge .10 for it. You collect that $10 and then adjust your budget, moving money to other sources, provide large refunds to select members and fund those changes by dropping the $50 you allocated down to $35.
Add in the $10 of earmarked cash and now your spend is $45, despite an effort by your members to increase.
Funding was cut 36.6% between 2008 and 2015.
How is trying to restore funding to 2008 levels throwing "more" money at education?!
That doesn't make sense.
The real question to ask is where did that money that already existed end up going? Why didn't they respect our vote?
The administration red herring it's also false.
I used to believe as you do Valley Native UNTIL I really dug down into it and found out that teachers really are not making much considering the education and other things required by No Child Left Behind act.
I fully support a forensic audit of where earmarked funds have gone over the last decade and why after all the propositions and levy increases were passed nothing that was promised got done.
Teachers should be making more than $35k per year especially if they have a masters degree. Teachers should not have to pull out of pocket for classroom supplies, buildings should be safe from falling down,heated/cooled properly and there should be enough current text books for their students.
First things first though, find out where the past money went, if it was siphoned off for the general fund or other obligations then restore the funding and present that to the public, let the creative accounting chips fall where they may...
Valley Native - throwing more money indicates money already had been thrown.
The government plays a shell game.
While propositions and increases to funding have been passed, the overall education spend goes down.
Think of it like this. You are managing 100 member association. You have $50 to address area "a" in your standard budget. The association members all agree there needs to be more funding for "a" and each pledge .10 for it. You collect that $10 and then adjust your budget, moving money to other sources, provide large refunds to select members and fund those changes by dropping the $50 you allocated down to $35.
Add in the $10 of earmarked cash and now your spend is $45, despite an effort by your members to increase.
Funding was cut 36.6% between 2008 and 2015.
How is trying to restore funding to 2008 levels throwing "more" money at education?!
That doesn't make sense.
The real question to ask is where did that money that already existed end up going? Why didn't they respect our vote?
The administration red herring it's also false.
You just made my point (the same one I've been making all this time) about why the government shouldn't be involved in education. Once you put government funding into anything, the costs often increase, the quality often decreases, and the whereabouts of our tax dollars is often diverted, lost or covered up! I will never understand the desire to keep funding public education when the quality simply does not improve regardless of how much money we put into it. Despite the fact that funding was cut, education still makes up the largest expenditure in the state budget, and it is the largest expenditure in our property taxes (between 60 & 70%).
The way I see it, the only real solution is to privatize education. This would be a win for everybody in the long run. For those of us who don't have children in school, our taxes would be substantially reduced. For those who do have children in school, the quality of education would be substantially superior to practically anything in the public system. Yes, parents would have to dip into their pockets and pay for tuition themselves, but it can be done if they would simply prioritize their expenses: cut back on cell phone usage, ITunes, Netflix, Xbox, and all the unnecessary electronic gadgets, walk more instead of drive, don't take as many vacations, etc. My parents managed to afford private school for us despite being barely middle class!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj
I used to believe as you do Valley Native UNTIL I really dug down into it and found out that teachers really are not making much considering the education and other things required by No Child Left Behind act.
I fully support a forensic audit of where earmarked funds have gone over the last decade and why after all the propositions and levy increases were passed nothing that was promised got done.
Teachers should be making more than $35k per year especially if they have a masters degree. Teachers should not have to pull out of pocket for classroom supplies, buildings should be safe from falling down,heated/cooled properly and there should be enough current text books for their students.
First things first though, find out where the past money went, if it was siphoned off for the general fund or other obligations then restore the funding and present that to the public, let the creative accounting chips fall where they may...
I agree that teachers' salaries are paltry considering how much education & training they had to go through to become teachers. Not only that, but all the nonsense they have to contend with on a day to day basis in the classroom and from administration. What I don't support is a massive walk out like what is planned. Your point about teachers having to pay out of their own pockets for supplies, and the poor quality of textbooks & structures in general is unfortunately all too true ... however, this goes back to my point about the government being involved in education. You don't usually find these kinds of conditions in private schools.
Privatizing is not a realistic option, especially when you need to serve the whole population.
I think you underestimate how much private schools go for now. Education costs have skyrocketed art all levels. This is without haunt to find for things like special education.
It also doesn't factor just how much poverty there is.
The problem isn't with public funding. It's with the lack of transparency and accounting.
Efficiencies could also be obtained in most all areas and education is no different.
Privatizing is not a realistic option, especially when you need to serve the whole population.
I think you underestimate how much private schools go for now. Education costs have skyrocketed art all levels. This is without haunt to find for things like special education.
It also doesn't factor just how much poverty there is.
The problem isn't with public funding. It's with the lack of transparency and accounting.
Efficiencies could also be obtained in most all areas and education is no different.
Every time education comes up in a thread, that poster prattles on about privatization. Public schools are constitutionally mandated. 95% of AZ students go to public schools. We have a problem and we need realistic solutions, not libertarian wet dreams and fantasies.
Every time education comes up in a thread, that poster prattles on about privatization. Public schools are constitutionally mandated. 95% of AZ students go to public schools. We have a problem and we need realistic solutions, not libertarian wet dreams and fantasies.
You just made my point (the same one I've been making all this time) about why the government shouldn't be involved in education. Once you put government funding into anything, the costs often increase, the quality often decreases, and the whereabouts of our tax dollars is often diverted, lost or covered up! I will never understand the desire to keep funding public education when the quality simply does not improve regardless of how much money we put into it. Despite the fact that funding was cut, education still makes up the largest expenditure in the state budget, and it is the largest expenditure in our property taxes (between 60 & 70%).
The way I see it, the only real solution is to privatize education. This would be a win for everybody in the long run. For those of us who don't have children in school, our taxes would be substantially reduced. For those who do have children in school, the quality of education would be substantially superior to practically anything in the public system. Yes, parents would have to dip into their pockets and pay for tuition themselves, but it can be done if they would simply prioritize their expenses: cut back on cell phone usage, ITunes, Netflix, Xbox, and all the unnecessary electronic gadgets, walk more instead of drive, don't take as many vacations, etc. My parents managed to afford private school for us despite being barely middle class!
I agree that teachers' salaries are paltry considering how much education & training they had to go through to become teachers. Not only that, but all the nonsense they have to contend with on a day to day basis in the classroom and from administration. What I don't support is a massive walk out like what is planned. Your point about teachers having to pay out of their own pockets for supplies, and the poor quality of textbooks & structures in general is unfortunately all too true ... however, this goes back to my point about the government being involved in education. You don't usually find these kinds of conditions in private schools.
I'm no fan of a walk out either BUT what else are they to do? They've asked,begged,asked again and begged until blue in the face and yet nothing happens. Hell, they even win court cases that order funding to be returned and nothing happens.
It's become obvious the ONLY way to get the legislators full attention is to cause pain for the public which threatens their re-election. I think a good percentage of the public finally realize who really caused this walkout and other walkouts across the nation.
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