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Old 04-24-2018, 12:11 PM
 
2,796 posts, read 3,264,226 times
Reputation: 1061

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Maybe this could have been avoided if Ducey would have been more responsible a few years ago. Example: tax cuts for private jet companies were not needed. They can tighten their belts just like the teachers have been doing for years.
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Old 04-24-2018, 12:23 PM
 
599 posts, read 989,641 times
Reputation: 396
In the next few days, the folks of Arizona have monumental decisions to make.

I originally come from a state that was literally taken over and run by Unions. The Unions never stop trying to grab power. They infiltrated local Governments and then begin writing laws that benefit themselves.

This has NOTHING to do with children, and it has everything to do with power. Our problem is that the Governor gave in too early in the negotiations. The teachers got that 20% raise without a Union-led fight. The Union never got the chance to flex their muscles. They don't like that.

If we give in to this Union take over...soon outside Companies that wish to build in Arizona will be forced to use Union contractors. Union Bus drivers will be next to strike, Union cafeteria help will be next after that. In the state that I came from the Union tried to Unionize Daycare works! They never stop! I was personally shaken down by Union thugs while trying to run a children's dance recital on the evening of the show!

Look for your property taxes to triple in the next 10 years if they win this battle. Hurry...go find that tax bill, look at it...and triple it!

Break this public sector Union now... before it breaks you. WAKE UP!
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Old 04-24-2018, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
2,940 posts, read 1,431,149 times
Reputation: 1925
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosco917 View Post
In the next few days, the folks of Arizona have monumental decisions to make.

I originally come from a state that was literally taken over and run by Unions. The Unions never stop trying to grab power. They infiltrated local Governments and then begin writing laws that benefit themselves.

This has NOTHING to do with children, and it has everything to do with power. Our problem is that the Governor gave in too early in the negotiations. The teachers got that 20% raise without a Union-led fight. The Union never got the chance to flex their muscles. They don't like that.

If we give in to this Union take over...soon outside Companies that wish to build in Arizona will be forced to use Union contractors. Union Bus drivers will be next to strike, Union cafeteria help will be next after that. In the state that I came from the Union tried to Unionize Daycare works! They never stop! I was personally shaken down by Union thugs while trying to run a children's dance recital on the evening of the show!

Look for your property taxes to triple in the next 10 years if they win this battle. Hurry...go find that tax bill, look at it...and triple it!

Break this public sector Union now... before it breaks you. WAKE UP!
The opposite is also true. Breaking up unions means... you (the state) wants more power over them.
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Old 04-24-2018, 12:30 PM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,973 posts, read 24,160,694 times
Reputation: 15587
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosco917 View Post
In the next few days, the folks of Arizona have monumental decisions to make.

I originally come from a state that was literally taken over and run by Unions. The Unions never stop trying to grab power. They infiltrated local Governments and then begin writing laws that benefit themselves.

This has NOTHING to do with children, and it has everything to do with power. Our problem is that the Governor gave in too early in the negotiations. The teachers got that 20% raise without a Union-led fight. The Union never got the chance to flex their muscles. They don't like that.

If we give in to this Union take over...soon outside Companies that wish to build in Arizona will be forced to use Union contractors. Union Bus drivers will be next to strike, Union cafeteria help will be next after that. In the state that I came from the Union tried to Unionize Daycare works! They never stop! I was personally shaken down by Union thugs while trying to run a children's dance recital on the evening of the show!

Look for your property taxes to triple in the next 10 years if they win this battle. Hurry...go find that tax bill, look at it...and triple it!

Break this public sector Union now... before it breaks you. WAKE UP!
You realize (or maybe not) that the 20% was really just a shell game right? It wasn't for all teachers and it took money from other programs that may just need that funding? You realize those teachers you're railing about currently make somewhere around $1-$2 more per hour than a burger flipper at the $15 per hour minimum wage?
You good with that? Would YOU do what they do for that?
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Old 04-24-2018, 12:36 PM
 
599 posts, read 989,641 times
Reputation: 396
Quote:
Originally Posted by man4857 View Post
The opposite is also true. Breaking up unions means... you (the state) wants more power over them.
Sorry, I don't understand what you're getting at.

"you (the state) wants more power over them" What?
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Old 04-24-2018, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
2,940 posts, read 1,431,149 times
Reputation: 1925
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosco917 View Post
Sorry, I don't understand what you're getting at.

"you (the state) wants more power over them" What?
Unionization is a way to get a seat at the bargaining table when confronting an organization. Break it up and you lose that seat.

So if you advocate for breaking up unions, to benefit the state's interest (saving taxpayer money), then the state has more power over them since there's no union to negotiate with. The individuals are left to fend for themselves at the mercy of the free market (which the kids suffer due to teachers leaving this state for higher salaries elsewhere) or in this case, state-controlled salaries controlled by bureaucrats.
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Old 04-24-2018, 12:40 PM
 
599 posts, read 989,641 times
Reputation: 396
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
You realize (or maybe not) that the 20% was really just a shell game right? It wasn't for all teachers and it took money from other programs that may just need that funding? You realize those teachers you're railing about currently make somewhere around $1-$2 more per hour than a burger flipper at the $15 per hour minimum wage?
You good with that? Would YOU do what they do for that?

The teachers deserve a raise...I'm telling you what will happen if the Unions gain more and more power in this state. That is their goal, that's what they do.

I'm assuming you have proof that the 20% raise was a shell game.
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Old 04-24-2018, 12:45 PM
 
599 posts, read 989,641 times
Reputation: 396
Quote:
Originally Posted by man4857 View Post
Unionization is a way to get a seat at the bargaining table when confronting an organization. Break it up and you lose that seat.

So if you advocate for breaking up unions, to benefit the state's interest (saving taxpayer money), then the state has more power over them since there's no union to negotiate with. The individuals are left to fend for themselves at the mercy of the free market (which the kids suffer due to teachers leaving this state for higher salaries elsewhere) or in this case, state-controlled salaries controlled by bureaucrats.

Unions never go away...I'm sorry maybe "break" was a poor choice of words. How about getting them under control. Better?

The examples I provided are 100% accurate...they happened.

If you want to pay crazy taxes on everything...then have at it.
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Old 04-24-2018, 01:00 PM
 
Location: northwest valley, az
3,064 posts, read 1,824,792 times
Reputation: 4186
I have one question that is nagging at me, but I cant find the answer anywhere..
The teachers are saying that a 20% pay raise isnt enough to keep them from walking out; if not, what EXACTLY is?

I mean, they are saying the want money for other staff, money for school improvements, money for books, money for technology, etc..
OK, how much SPECIFICALLY for each of those things do they want? I have yet to see ANY SPECIFIC AMOUNTS requested for ANYTHING; all I see is "20% pay raise isnt enough"

How are residents supposed to decide if they support all these things, if we dont even know what they are asking for SPECIFICALLY??
Having a walkout because 20% pay raise isnt sufficient, and not listing SPECIFICS for what you are actually walking out over will only turn the public against them, IMO..Plus, the public has a right to know SPECIFICALLY what they want to avoid a prolonged job action..

Am I missing something here, or is there an actual list of SPECIFIC REQUESTS somewhere? And just saying we want more money for this or that isnt an actual bargaining position, is it?
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Old 04-24-2018, 01:22 PM
 
Location: AZ
2,066 posts, read 3,446,278 times
Reputation: 3603
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosco917 View Post
In the next few days, the folks of Arizona have monumental decisions to make.

I originally come from a state that was literally taken over and run by Unions. The Unions never stop trying to grab power. They infiltrated local Governments and then begin writing laws that benefit themselves.

This has NOTHING to do with children, and it has everything to do with power. Our problem is that the Governor gave in too early in the negotiations. The teachers got that 20% raise without a Union-led fight. The Union never got the chance to flex their muscles. They don't like that.

If we give in to this Union take over...soon outside Companies that wish to build in Arizona will be forced to use Union contractors. Union Bus drivers will be next to strike, Union cafeteria help will be next after that. In the state that I came from the Union tried to Unionize Daycare works! They never stop! I was personally shaken down by Union thugs while trying to run a children's dance recital on the evening of the show!

Look for your property taxes to triple in the next 10 years if they win this battle. Hurry...go find that tax bill, look at it...and triple it!

Break this public sector Union now... before it breaks you. WAKE UP!

This is 100% correct! I also came from a very high union state and trust me once they come in and take over there's no stopping them!

When I tell people here that it's not uncommon to pay $8,000-$12,000/yr just in property taxes they think I'm crazy but yes,it's true. These are average homes too not McMansions. My house back in MA was 2000 sq ft and I built it in "07,my taxes were $6,000/yr and I wasn't even near the Boston area. Take that same house and move it closer to Boston and you can easily double it.

Everyone here enjoys not having toll roads,better not get use to that either. Also all the "little" perks we get like not having to pay $65.00 every 5 years to renew your drivers license or having to get a CCW permit all these little nickel and dime expenses do add up over time. Unions never stop at just one thing they always push for more and more.

Go over to the MA,CA,IL or any other section here on CD that has a high union presence and read the complaints for yourself. IL is a classic example of what unions will do to a state,there's a reason they're going bankrupt!
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