U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Arizona > Phoenix area
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 04-24-2018, 01:25 PM
 
9,241 posts, read 7,801,908 times
Reputation: 2217

Advertisements

With these protest of higher wages people fail to realize, besides higher taxes higher wages are inflationary. With in an increase in the money supply the demand for goods and services increases

This whole protest is a power grab. Most unions tend side democratic since the days of Franklin d Roosevelt. Since that era Regan was the only Republican to go toe to toe with unions.

If the protest was about the children they wouldn't be used as pawns.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-24-2018, 01:26 PM
 
17,824 posts, read 38,716,847 times
Reputation: 10481
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosco917 View Post
The teachers deserve a raise...I'm telling you what will happen if the Unions gain more and more power in this state. That is their goal, that's what they do.

I'm assuming you have proof that the 20% raise was a shell game.


It's borrowing from Peter to pay Paul, which is what state government has done for years to meet short term issues. It's not a sustainable way of operating over the long haul. The tax breaks that Governor Cold Stone and his helpers have been passing out for years have to STOP at some point.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-24-2018, 01:59 PM
 
9,093 posts, read 17,394,867 times
Reputation: 6922
This isn't a union action. Unions in education are non- existent.

There is no 20% raise. Even that figure was actually in the table (it's not), the lower figure discussed for this year didn't account for teachers that do not have a class roster ( any specials teacher), does not account for support staff and had no funding beyond unrealistic growth projections and ripping money from universities, social needs kids, health care and stuff like that.

There was never a transparent, sound, legal proposal. Just a soundbyte that allows them to say they made a concession - they didnt. That is why there is no detailed proposal to review. It simply doesn't exist.

Finally, from the beginning this was about more than teacher pay. It is educational funding.

We lost 36.6% of our school funding between 2008 and 2015.

Our state had lost multiple billion dollar lawsuits related to education funding and hasn't responded to actually fix it, aside from prop 123 which was essentially a land grab that put the state back in court.

The people keep voting to fund schools, yet the budgets get slashed.

How many items cost less today than in 2008? Not many. The cost of materials increases, insurance increases, building repair and maintenance increases, electric gas and water all increase...... Our schools have been swallowing these increases while their funding decreases and we are now past the breaking point.

The ask has been from the beginning to put a plan in place to restore education funding to 2008 levels. Teacher pay its just a sub narrative that draws emotion and clicks
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-24-2018, 02:02 PM
 
9,093 posts, read 17,394,867 times
Reputation: 6922
Children aren't being used a pawns. Your rhetoric is weak.

A short term inconvenience to push for a sustainable long term benefit is still a benefit in sum.

The kids are hurt everyday they walk into an understaffed school, with a lack of resources in a possibly unsafe setting.

That harm impacts their lifetime
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-24-2018, 02:16 PM
 
Location: northwest valley, az
3,064 posts, read 1,824,792 times
Reputation: 4186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Laker View Post
This isn't a union action. Unions in education are non- existent.
So, you are saying there are no teachers unions in the USA or just in AZ?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-24-2018, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Surprise, AZ
90 posts, read 79,835 times
Reputation: 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by wase4711 View Post
I have one question that is nagging at me, but I cant find the answer anywhere..
The teachers are saying that a 20% pay raise isnt enough to keep them from walking out; if not, what EXACTLY is?

I mean, they are saying the want money for other staff, money for school improvements, money for books, money for technology, etc..
OK, how much SPECIFICALLY for each of those things do they want? I have yet to see ANY SPECIFIC AMOUNTS requested for ANYTHING; all I see is "20% pay raise isnt enough"

How are residents supposed to decide if they support all these things, if we dont even know what they are asking for SPECIFICALLY??
Having a walkout because 20% pay raise isnt sufficient, and not listing SPECIFICS for what you are actually walking out over will only turn the public against them, IMO..Plus, the public has a right to know SPECIFICALLY what they want to avoid a prolonged job action..

Am I missing something here, or is there an actual list of SPECIFIC REQUESTS somewhere? And just saying we want more money for this or that isnt an actual bargaining position, is it?

Their demands are pretty easy to find:

20% raise for all teaching and certified staff

Competitive wages for all classified staff

Return school funding to 2008 levels

No new tax cuts until AZ per-pupil spending reaches national average

Yearly raises until AZ teacher salary reaches the national average


ETA link: http://arizonaeducatorsunited.com/demands
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-24-2018, 02:21 PM
 
9,093 posts, read 17,394,867 times
Reputation: 6922
Quote:
Originally Posted by wase4711 View Post
So, you are saying there are no teachers unions in the USA or just in AZ?
There is a union in AZ, but if had no power, doesn't collectively bargain and cannot provide any real benefit.

People don't like paying dues for no benefit and it's not like they have a lot of extra income to throw around.

The overwhelming majority of AZ teachers do not belong to a union.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-24-2018, 02:28 PM
 
Location: northwest valley, az
3,064 posts, read 1,824,792 times
Reputation: 4186
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitshipp View Post
Their demands are pretty easy to find:

20% raise for all teaching and certified staff

Competitive wages for all classified staff

Return school funding to 2008 levels

No new tax cuts until AZ per-pupil spending reaches national average

Yearly raises until AZ teacher salary reaches the national average


ETA link: Arizona Educators United - demands
Thanks, I hadn't seen that specific info anywhere..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Laker View Post
There is a union in AZ, but if had no power, doesn't collectively bargain and cannot provide any real benefit.

People don't like paying dues for no benefit and it's not like they have a lot of extra income to throw around.

The overwhelming majority of AZ teachers do not belong to a union.
wow, didnt even know a union for teachers even existed in AZ..thanks for the info
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-24-2018, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
34,001 posts, read 43,714,153 times
Reputation: 23017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Laker View Post
There is a union in AZ, but if had no power, doesn't collectively bargain and cannot provide any real benefit.

People don't like paying dues for no benefit and it's not like they have a lot of extra income to throw around.

The overwhelming majority of AZ teachers do not belong to a union.
From the "union" website:

Quote:
AEA was formed more than a century ago, in 1892, when a group of Arizona educators banded together to protest the use of 14-year-old textbooks.
LOL! Not much has changed in Arizona.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-24-2018, 03:09 PM
 
1,452 posts, read 1,502,689 times
Reputation: 2160
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibarrio View Post
Yeah, California pays 20 grand more and actually is proactive in supporting education. Note, not one state is perfect but at least some are trying.
Strangely enough, California only spends about $500 more per student to accomplish this. AZ has to be wasting a lot of money somewhere, because a lot more should end up in teachers pockets.

Utah spends more than $1k less per pupil and still manages about a $50k annual salary.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Arizona > Phoenix area
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top