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Old 04-25-2018, 05:54 PM
 
2,305 posts, read 4,721,186 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
Why did it take so long for a person like Rosa Parks to stand up? Before the wailing and gnashing of teeth starts, my point is sometimes it just takes all the right things to come into alignment for a spark to be ignited.
It's been lit by other states who'd finally had enough AND the economy is now out of recession, reportedly going great so there's that as well...
Or it just might be an effort by those on the left (since the first four states: WV, KY, OK and AZ all went for Trump) to try and sow discord to help their political movement since they were so thoroughly embarrassed by losing the last POTUS election?

Will we see these same people protesting the saddling of their children with unsustainable debt ala, CA, IL, CT, NJ, etc. (not to mention the Feds)?
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Old 04-25-2018, 06:22 PM
 
2,305 posts, read 4,721,186 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
So is social media. The people are restive. Social media movements are showing them how successful grass roots organizing can be. You see it start up in West Virginia of all places and it just spreads like wild fire through the wires.
Partially correct. From an article in the NY times from earlier this month:

This is a movement that was largely organized on Facebook by rank-and-file teachers, who moved faster and more aggressively than their union leaders in demanding action from lawmakers. In conservative states like these, union membership is optional for teachers.

That said, the state and national unions have stepped in with crucial organizing and lobbying muscle, and are now coordinating closely with grass-roots leaders.
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Old 04-25-2018, 06:39 PM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
34,001 posts, read 43,714,153 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burning Madolf View Post
Partially correct. From an article in the NY times from earlier this month:

This is a movement that was largely organized on Facebook by rank-and-file teachers, who moved faster and more aggressively than their union leaders in demanding action from lawmakers. In conservative states like these, union membership is optional for teachers.

That said, the state and national unions have stepped in with crucial organizing and lobbying muscle, and are now coordinating closely with grass-roots leaders.
Yeah, the AEA here is doing that organizing. Only a small minority of teachers are AEA members though. There are no union leaddrs or "bosses" in the districts, no union contracts, no collective bargaining.

Wages and benefits are not even standard in the state or even within Maricopa county. Every district has its own pay scales. This is one of the objections to a state mandated solution that some legislators have raised - it takes away local authority.

I think the union is hoping to increase their membership after this is all over and maybe they will. That is what happens when labor is abused. You keep unions out by treating employees fairly.
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Old 04-25-2018, 06:44 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
34,711 posts, read 18,879,847 times
Reputation: 12432
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burning Madolf View Post
He does have a point though. This is being pushed by a national movement AND why didn't it happen between 08-16?
Because it was looked at as a "temporary issue" related to the state's budget in 2008-10 due to the Great Recession. Then one day, West Virginia teachers had enough of promises of higher pay and higher funding but yet the politicians did nothing. I knew that Arizona needed to. I work as a support staff educator in special education. I work at $0.89 over state minimum wage and often I am over-worked and underpaid. It is mentally and physically draining many days. We aren't paid an honest wage for honest work. Even teachers aren't considering there are as many as 5,000 teaching positions that remain unfilled and many work with 30 students in rooms designed for 25 with textbooks from the 1990's.
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Old 04-25-2018, 08:28 PM
 
Location: northwest valley, az
3,064 posts, read 1,824,792 times
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overcrowded classrooms, and non existent textbooks happen everywhere; even in Illinois, where the taxes that are paid towards schools are outrageous, as are many of the salaries/pensions/benefits earned by many teachers, many of the high end suburban areas have the same exact issue...
BTW, 30 kids in a class room in chicago land would be welcome; 35-40 is more the norm..

To me, the reason that these types of actions are becoming so prevalent has to do with the fact that almost EVERYONE now a days is out raged by something; the left hates the right, the libs hate conservatives, dems hate repubs, and many claim is has to do with who is sitting in the White house now..

Not making any judgements, and, obviously teachers are underpaid in Arizona, but, this climate of "Outrage" and Hatred is a big part of why all this kind of stuff is going on all over the USA now, IMO
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Old 04-25-2018, 08:51 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
34,711 posts, read 18,879,847 times
Reputation: 12432
Quote:
Originally Posted by wase4711 View Post
overcrowded classrooms, and non existent textbooks happen everywhere; even in Illinois, where the taxes that are paid towards schools are outrageous, as are many of the salaries/pensions/benefits earned by many teachers, many of the high end suburban areas have the same exact issue...
BTW, 30 kids in a class room in chicago land would be welcome; 35-40 is more the norm..

To me, the reason that these types of actions are becoming so prevalent has to do with the fact that almost EVERYONE now a days is out raged by something; the left hates the right, the libs hate conservatives, dems hate repubs, and many claim is has to do with who is sitting in the White house now..

Not making any judgements, and, obviously teachers are underpaid in Arizona, but, this climate of "Outrage" and Hatred is a big part of why all this kind of stuff is going on all over the USA now, IMO
Maybe so, but we are talking about a governor who had a big talk on education funding but has done little to back up his claims. His propositions were fought and overturned and now he wants to fund just teacheers and not care about support staff or upgrades. No not having it. This August I'll remember this and not vote for him in the primaries.
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Old 04-25-2018, 08:55 PM
 
Location: northwest valley, az
3,064 posts, read 1,824,792 times
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he's obviously a politician first and foremost, and if I continue to see that nauseating commercial he has run 1 billion times in the last few weeks, touting his love for teachers and students, I think my eyes will fall out of my head..
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Old 04-25-2018, 09:02 PM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,973 posts, read 24,160,694 times
Reputation: 15587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
Yeah, the AEA here is doing that organizing. Only a small minority of teachers are AEA members though. There are no union leaddrs or "bosses" in the districts, no union contracts, no collective bargaining.

Wages and benefits are not even standard in the state or even within Maricopa county. Every district has its own pay scales. This is one of the objections to a state mandated solution that some legislators have raised - it takes away local authority.

I think the union is hoping to increase their membership after this is all over and maybe they will. That is what happens when labor is abused. You keep unions out by treating employees fairly.
In my life I've worked for a few companies that were good enough to the employees to the point that when approached to go union they told the union to go pound sand. I've also been at a couple of companies that were good to work for then went bad, usually after some "consultant" showed up. That's when union talk started along with people fleeing.

There was one or two who said "if you decide to go union that's fine BUT you'll lose a good portion of what you're getting now without them or, we'll just close the doors.
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Old 04-26-2018, 12:30 AM
 
Location: Outside US
2,340 posts, read 1,061,151 times
Reputation: 3322
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosco917 View Post
I wonder if this would be going on if Hillary had won the election? Somehow I think not.

This is all about National politics, this is being orchestrated and organized from the top down by the National Party. The kids are pawns.
No, not at all.

It's about conditions in AZ.
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Old 04-26-2018, 08:25 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
34,711 posts, read 18,879,847 times
Reputation: 12432
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
It isn't fake news, it was just a deleted tweet. https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...ion/552217002/
I didn't think the local Fox stations (unless they were a Sinclair owned station) would be as bad as Fox News, but in the last week they have. Fellow anchor John Hook did the same thing this week attacking teachers on KTAR, even saying they should have negotiated with lawmakers when in reality the lawmakers (namely Ducey) wouldn't. Mac and Gaydos (The interviewers) even called him out on it. Podcast Player Archives - KTAR.com

It is safe to say Fox 10 is bisaed towards the right. Luckily Arizona is a right leaning state but in these cases, these anchors are wrong and prove to be typical Fox sock puppets. I kind of wish they were a Sinclair owned station come to think of it, at least you can "trust" them...
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