Teacher walk-outs in Phoenix area (top school, taxes, live)

[Witchz]

Pay for performance or they should not get anything just like the kids get that they dont manage to teach.

[Returning2USA]

They pay is very low and therefore other conditions will be bad as well. I wouldn't consider teaching in AZ.

As far as "pay for performance" a LOT of a student's progress or lack of is related to his/her motivation and their parents providing a supporting environment.

I used to teach overseas.

[nmnita]

When teachers choose their profession they do it knowing they will never get rich on their salary. Like any other profession they need to accept this or work toward moving into administration. Sorry I do not believe in teachers depriving their students of school because they feel cheated.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by smoochaz

Well I got a text just now - late night - that AZ teachers announced school walkout beginning Thurs Apr 26.

They have no choice at this point having painted themselves into a corner. If they didn't follow through on their threats they would've been seen as weak and unorganized to be ignored from then on.

I think they're doing the correct thing given all the circumstances involved.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by nmnita

When teachers choose their profession they do it knowing they will never get rich on their salary. Like any other profession they need to accept this or work toward moving into administration. Sorry I do not believe in teachers depriving their students of school because they feel cheated.

Please tell me in which profession you are expected to spend a portion of your paycheck to subsidize your employer? Just one teacher I know spent $1500+ last year to buy supplies for her classroom, I've heard larger figures batted about from time to time.
It's not "just" about their paychecks, it's also about being able to provide a top notch education to the children and having the appropriate tools to do so.

One example, having 10-20 year old text books that are falling apart to teach from is NOT having the appropriate tools. Not having enough text books for the whole class is NOT having the appropriate tools.

Schools not being heated or cooled properly or that are simply unsafe to occupy is NOT having the appropriate tools.
It's about much more than just teacher pay although that is certainly part of the issue...

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by jimj

They have no choice at this point having painted themselves into a corner. If they didn't follow through on their threats they would've been seen as weak and unorganized to be ignored from then on.

I think they're doing the correct thing given all the circumstances involved.

Ducey came through with a proposal but his funding sources were gutting everything else that is also short funded already to pay for it. Arizona needs to face up to the fact that being last in education funding and teacher pay is not a badge of honor. It is devastating to our chances at attracting new businesses and entrepreneurial startups. It hurts our property values. If it means new taxes then so be it. We will all benefit more than the few bucks we will have to chip in. #RedforEd

[Finger Laker]

Originally Posted by nmnita

When teachers choose their profession they do it knowing they will never get rich on their salary. Like any other profession they need to accept this or work toward moving into administration. Sorry I do not believe in teachers depriving their students of school because they feel cheated.

Apparently you do believe in a state getting sued and losing a court case over 20 years ago for underfunding school maintenance budgets by over 1 billion dollars and still having it unsettled.

You don't think it deprived children when education funding is cut 36.6% between 2008 and 2015 ( the largest cut in the nation)

You don't think it harms students by not being able to attract and retain qualified professionals?

If you are really concerned about the students then you should that the students for standing strong and pushing the issue to support their education

[jimj]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Ducey came through with a proposal but his funding sources were gutting everything else that is also short funded already to pay for it. Arizona needs to face up to the fact that being last in education funding and teacher pay is not a badge of honor. It is devastating to our chances at attracting new businesses and entrepreneurial startups. It hurts our property values. If it means new taxes then so be it. We will all benefit more than the few bucks we will have to chip in. #RedforEd

Hopefully they will do better with their (the teachers) messaging which is the big part of their issue right now. The public sees prop 123 and sales tax increases and believe that those few million should've solved all the problems and that teachers must be greedy to demand more.
The problem with all that is exactly how much made it to where it was promised to go? Same with the dumb arse lottery money.
There needs to be a forensic audit of the State school system to identify exactly where funds are going and where they are most needed with a rebalancing every year or two. Bloat and waste needs to be identified and cut.

Where I'm at a loss is what's gone wrong starting in about the mid 80's on. When I was in the public school system (pre 1975) I didn't ever hear teachers complain about pay, there were current textbooks and old torn up ones were trashed.
The facilities were kept up, everything worked and parents were not expected to foot the bill for busing or field trips (except for entry fees to a Zoo or something) and were not charged extra for sports or music programs or any other elective program. We had auto,metals and wood shops fully stocked with the tools needed. We even had Drivers Education class.

What the hell happened?

[jimj]

Originally Posted by Finger Laker

Apparently you do believe in a state getting sued and losing a court case over 20 years ago for underfunding school maintenance budgets by over 1 billion dollars and still having it unsettled.

You don't think it deprived children when education funding is cut 36.6% between 2008 and 2015 ( the largest cut in the nation)

You don't think it harms students by not being able to attract and retain qualified professionals?

If you are really concerned about the students then you should that the students for standing strong and pushing the issue to support their education

Here's what should scare every single adult in this state and motivate them to fix this situation. These kids now going through the school system here will be the uneducated leaders of tomorrow.

THAT alone should scare the snot out of every voter no matter what stripe.

[Ztonyg]

Originally Posted by jimj

Hopefully they will do better with their (the teachers) messaging which is the big part of their issue right now. The public sees prop 123 and sales tax increases and believe that those few million should've solved all the problems and that teachers must be greedy to demand more.
The problem with all that is exactly how much made it to where it was promised to go? Same with the dumb arse lottery money.
There needs to be a forensic audit of the State school system to identify exactly where funds are going and where they are most needed with a rebalancing every year or two. Bloat and waste needs to be identified and cut.

Where I'm at a loss is what's gone wrong starting in about the mid 80's on. When I was in the public school system (pre 1975) I didn't ever hear teachers complain about pay, there were current textbooks and old torn up ones were trashed.
The facilities were kept up, everything worked and parents were not expected to foot the bill for busing or field trips (except for entry fees to a Zoo or something) and were not charged extra for sports or music programs or any other elective program. We had auto,metals and wood shops fully stocked with the tools needed. We even had Drivers Education class.

What the hell happened?

In the 1980s the Republican Party decided that cutting taxes was more important than funding the nation's infrastructure, schools, social safety net, etc. The nationwide Reagan Revolution began.

At both the state and federal level Republicans began to campaign for "tax cuts" and "no new taxes" and consistently were elected and re-elected (especially here in Arizona).

Unfortunately, if you're constantly cutting taxes for a 30 year period eventually you're going to cut services. Even today most Republicans are campaigning on cutting taxes further or pledging to not raise taxes. Now we're at rock bottom where things have been cut to (and in some cases into) the bone.