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Old 04-20-2018, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Westchester County, NY
9,942 posts, read 16,055,272 times
Reputation: 3998

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Quote:
Originally Posted by asufan View Post
I'm a product of California public schools, not AZ, however no one is saying the pay is OK they knew what they were getting into, I'm saying the pay is not OK, but don't start a school year knowing what you get paid and walk out from your job. Protest all you want as long as youre doing your damn job. Or don't commit to it at all.
OK so someone doesn't commit and quits. So some not so good teacher who wants to teach for a reason other than being dedicated to the kids (i.e. the supposed "time off" not realizing there's a lot of "work at home" during time off) takes the salary and replaces him or her. District hires said person because there's a shortage and they are "desperate", and person takes job because they see teaching as "easy" and "lazy" and accepts the low-ish pay.

So now instead of solving this problem we are being penny wise and having a "race to the bottom". Whereas if everyone walks out and there's either no school or they have to do the crazy thing of suddenly hiring a bunch of "scabs", it speaks of "hey, we have to do something" and action gets done.

Ironically in uber-liberal NY where I live there is a law that fines the teachers and their union for walkouts, though sometimes they are done for a day or two anyway and just pay the fine. But NY is nowhere near places like AZ and WV for teacher pay, even when you weight in the higher taxes and (at least in the area near NYC) the uber-high COL. Most places start in the $40s and even some $50s and a good, experienced teacher can often get close to or over $100K. Weighted for the "time off" (though again, more work during parts of them than you think), I think this is fair.
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Old 04-20-2018, 10:42 AM
 
4,025 posts, read 7,845,483 times
Reputation: 4006
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7 Wishes View Post
OK so someone doesn't commit and quits. So some not so good teacher who wants to teach for a reason other than being dedicated to the kids (i.e. the supposed "time off" not realizing there's a lot of "work at home" during time off) takes the salary and replaces him or her. District hires said person because there's a shortage and they are "desperate", and person takes job because they see teaching as "easy" and "lazy" and accepts the low-ish pay.

So now instead of solving this problem we are being penny wise and having a "race to the bottom". Whereas if everyone walks out and there's either no school or they have to do the crazy thing of suddenly hiring a bunch of "scabs", it speaks of "hey, we have to do something" and action gets done.

Ironically in uber-liberal NY where I live there is a law that fines the teachers and their union for walkouts, though sometimes they are done for a day or two anyway and just pay the fine. But NY is nowhere near places like AZ and WV for teacher pay, even when you weight in the higher taxes and (at least in the area near NYC) the uber-high COL. Most places start in the $40s and even some $50s and a good, experienced teacher can often get close to or over $100K. Weighted for the "time off" (though again, more work during parts of them than you think), I think this is fair.
Not sure I follow this post or what your opinion is on the matter, I just want to reiterate I am on the side of the teachers getting raises and will gladly pay more taxes (as mentioned earlier in the thread I put my money where my mouth is through donations to the schools for general purposes/supplies). I just think a strike is the wrong way to do that and they will experience push back.
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Old 04-20-2018, 10:49 AM
 
9,093 posts, read 17,374,387 times
Reputation: 6922
Quote:
Originally Posted by asufan View Post
Not sure I follow this post or what your opinion is on the matter, I just want to reiterate I am on the side of the teachers getting raises and will gladly pay more taxes (as mentioned earlier in the thread I put my money where my mouth is through donations to the schools for general purposes/supplies). I just think a strike is the wrong way to do that and they will experience push back.
Push back is fine. You will never have 100% consensus.

Nothing else has worked.

Need to continue to press the issue and force our leaders to talk on record and push for details and transparency

For the whole time I've been here three has been lip service.

Even when people vote to specifically add funding, it gets stripped away in sum

The state is hoping people stay silent and this blows away
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Old 04-20-2018, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Surprise, Az
3,502 posts, read 8,888,582 times
Reputation: 1855
Quote:
Originally Posted by asufan View Post
Not sure I follow this post or what your opinion is on the matter, I just want to reiterate I am on the side of the teachers getting raises and will gladly pay more taxes (as mentioned earlier in the thread I put my money where my mouth is through donations to the schools for general purposes/supplies). I just think a strike is the wrong way to do that and they will experience push back.
Correct, the republicans welcome the walkout so they can say see, I told you to the Gov.
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Old 04-20-2018, 11:00 AM
 
4,025 posts, read 7,845,483 times
Reputation: 4006
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibarrio View Post
Correct, the republicans welcome the walkout so they can say see, I told you to the Gov.
I'm neither Republican or Democrat, I think both sides are incorrect half the time. Just speaking as a free thinker I value things that are for the public good like city parks, better roads, good teachers, etc and am willing to pay more for such things
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Old 04-20-2018, 11:08 AM
 
9,093 posts, read 17,374,387 times
Reputation: 6922
7 wishes - I'm from NY as well. While the education system isn't perfect, it is far ahead of here.

I'm from a relatively poor area, but or schools were well structured and you had a whole slew of directions you could go.

The teaching jobs were among the best jobs in the area.

Teachers in my home county are making typically 50,000 to 70,000.

This is in a rural area with a low COL and home prices
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Old 04-20-2018, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Surprise, Az
3,502 posts, read 8,888,582 times
Reputation: 1855
Quote:
Originally Posted by asufan View Post
I'm neither Republican or Democrat, I think both sides are incorrect half the time. Just speaking as a free thinker I value things that are for the public good like city parks, better roads, good teachers, etc and am willing to pay more for such things
Same, I don't mind paying the extra taxes. When I taught high school special education in California my base was $72,000. That was 12 years ago with 10 years teaching experience. We had a healthy discussion about Red for Ed in my law class and it was good to see that a majority are in support of the teachers. Strikes are technically illegal in Arizona but there is no way any action could be taken against the teachers. As it stands there is a shortage of about 2,000 teachers. Can you imagine replacing over 80,000? Schools would shutdown and too many parents depend on schools as daycare.
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Old 04-20-2018, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Outside US
2,339 posts, read 1,054,454 times
Reputation: 3321
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
When teachers choose their profession they do it knowing they will never get rich on their salary. Like any other profession they need to accept this or work toward moving into administration. Sorry I do not believe in teachers depriving their students of school because they feel cheated.
What they need to do is teach elsewhere.

Leave.
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Old 04-20-2018, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
77,813 posts, read 91,454,277 times
Reputation: 48817
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
Please tell me in which profession you are expected to spend a portion of your paycheck to subsidize your employer? Just one teacher I know spent $1500+ last year to buy supplies for her classroom, I've heard larger figures batted about from time to time.
It's not "just" about their paychecks, it's also about being able to provide a top notch education to the children and having the appropriate tools to do so.

One example, having 10-20 year old text books that are falling apart to teach from is NOT having the appropriate tools. Not having enough text books for the whole class is NOT having the appropriate tools.

Schools not being heated or cooled properly or that are simply unsafe to occupy is NOT having the appropriate tools.
It's about much more than just teacher pay although that is certainly part of the issue...
Well I have known a lot of teachers in my 81 years and none have complained about things like schools not being heated or cooled properly. Heck I went to a top elementary school and high school in Los Angeles and we didn't even have central air; We survived while getting a good education. Our kids spent a good part of their school years in one of the top school districts in So Ca. as well as Marin county, Ca and survived without a/c most of the time.

We didn't always have enough text books to go around so we shared.

I do agree, often teachers do spend money on supplies but that is their choice and most of the teachers I know do not even consider walking out on strike. With that I will say, from what I have heard 90% of the walk out has to do with salary. By the way, you seem to think all the stories you are hearing from striking teachers are true and apply to every school in a particular district. Have you considered there are 2 sides to most stories and strikers want us to believe only their side. I still do not think striking is the answer and I do not think the teachers have the kids best interest at heart.

Don't get me wrong, I do think they are underpaid in many cases, but we also have to remember they have 2 months or more off during summer and more breaks during the years than the average worker. That being said, I know of more teachers who have left the field because of lack of being able to discipline kids than due to working conditions.
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Old 04-20-2018, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Surprise, Az
3,502 posts, read 8,888,582 times
Reputation: 1855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Returning2USA View Post
What they need to do is teach elsewhere.

Leave.
Yeah, California pays 20 grand more and actually is proactive in supporting education. Note, not one state is perfect but at least some are trying.
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