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Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,610,214 times
Reputation: 9169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Native
Even then it was going downhill. I remember riding the buses through parts of Maryvale in the early 1980s, and it was rather slummy at that time: walls covered in graffiti, houses that were becoming run down with wire fences around the front yards, kids running out in the streets, etc. This is what happens when an area is "cheap", and the people who live there don't have any ambition to make it better.
There has to be at least one cheap area, unless you want people who can't afford nice areas to live on the streets
Even then it was going downhill. I remember riding the buses through parts of Maryvale in the early 1980s, and it was rather slummy at that time: walls covered in graffiti, houses that were becoming run down with wire fences around the front yards, kids running out in the streets, etc. This is what happens when an area is "cheap", and the people who live there don't have any ambition to make it better.
My realtor/friend, a longtime Phoenix resident (since the 70's) explained to me why life in Maryvale changed from a vibrant master planned community that was affordable and safe to raise kids, into what most of the area has become today.
In a nutshell: decades ago, a carcinogen, trichloroethylene or "TCE", had been dumped into the ground by several industrial plants located within relatively close proximity of major sources of drinking water for the area. As a result of the contamination, the city shut down a few water sources and studies found high rates of childhood Leukemia and other illnesses occurred from 1965 to 1986. This became known as a "Cancer Cluster."
The area later became a Superfund site (info on this available on ADEQ's website), and residents left the area leaving behind many properties which turned into rentals.
This left a decades old stain on the area however, there is "ambition to make it better" but will take time. Check out the Maryvale Revitalization Corporation who has a significant list of investment partners.
There has to be at least one cheap area, unless you want people who can't afford nice areas to live on the streets
And if the cheap and mid-range areas keep having rising costs, we will see more homeless.
At some point people need to start recognizing that shelter is a literal need, just like food and water, and housing should be required to be accessible for all people, because well, it's a need. The fact that the homeless even exist as a concept is embarrassing.
There has to be at least one cheap area, unless you want people who can't afford nice areas to live on the streets
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prickly Pear
And if the cheap and mid-range areas keep having rising costs, we will see more homeless.
At some point people need to start recognizing that shelter is a literal need, just like food and water, and housing should be required to be accessible for all people, because well, it's a need. The fact that the homeless even exist as a concept is embarrassing.
I realize this, but the bland sketchiness and overall deterioration used to be confined mostly to Maryvale. Anymore, it seems like a good chunk of Phoenix's west side (as well as parts of Glendale) have become a lot like Maryvale. What I really think is shameful is how the area around Metrocenter has become so run down compared to what it was just 20 years ago. This is one area which I believe a great deal of investment & revitalization would be worthwhile. The mall could be demolished and turned into either a theme park, or a mixed use development with mid or highrise buildings. That alone would have a way of revamping the neighborhoods around there.
I realize this, but the bland sketchiness and overall deterioration used to be confined mostly to Maryvale. Anymore, it seems like a good chunk of Phoenix's west side (as well as parts of Glendale) have become a lot like Maryvale. What I really think is shameful is how the area around Metrocenter has become so run down compared to what it was just 20 years ago. This is one area which I believe a great deal of investment & revitalization would be worthwhile. The mall could be demolished and turned into either a theme park, or a mixed use development with mid or highrise buildings. That alone would have a way of revamping the neighborhoods around there.
What's the plan for the Metrocenter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prickly Pear
And if the cheap and mid-range areas keep having rising costs, we will see more homeless.
At some point people need to start recognizing that shelter is a literal need, just like food and water, and housing should be required to be accessible for all people, because well, it's a need. The fact that the homeless even exist as a concept is embarrassing.
It's only going to get worse until construction, material and resources costs decrease. It's a reflection of the prices and market value of what people are willing to pay to purchase a house. Yes, I agree with what you're saying.
What I really think is shameful is how the area around Metrocenter has become so run down compared to what it was just 20 years ago. This is one area which I believe a great deal of investment & revitalization would be worthwhile. The mall could be demolished and turned into either a theme park, or a mixed use development with mid or highrise buildings. That alone would have a way of revamping the neighborhoods around there.
Didn't the current owner, Warren Fink, of Carlyle Development Group, say that plans are to knock down most of what's existing and along with retail space, invest in medical, office and residential space?
I believe Fink also convinced the City of Phoenix to change zoning for these purposes since the light rail will extend to Metrocenter by 2023.
I realize this, but the bland sketchiness and overall deterioration used to be confined mostly to Maryvale. Anymore, it seems like a good chunk of Phoenix's west side (as well as parts of Glendale) have become a lot like Maryvale. What I really think is shameful is how the area around Metrocenter has become so run down compared to what it was just 20 years ago. This is one area which I believe a great deal of investment & revitalization would be worthwhile. The mall could be demolished and turned into either a theme park, or a mixed use development with mid or highrise buildings. That alone would have a way of revamping the neighborhoods around there.
Cost of living has risen, wages have stagnated, therefore the poor have risen. It makes sense that expands out of Maryvale because of that. It's not like people are building affordable apartments or high rises that could condense the overall population instead of sprawling until the edge of the Earth.
West Phoenix, as someone from West Valley and even lived in the neighborhoods you mentioned in your original post for quite some time, will never be a upper middle class or higher area. West Valley as a whole is known for being more middle class and lower, with the exception of a couple areas like Arrowhead Ranch. It makes sense that West Valley being in the near radius of Maryvale saw the property values decrease the most.
What separates West Valley from East Valley is worth discussing, while East Valley does have similar areas in West Mesa, Tempe, etc. even the poorer areas of East Valley is closer and more accessible to the amenities in North Tempe and Scottsdale, and even closer to Downtown, given the kind of traffic the I-10 in West Valley sees on a daily basis. Light rail investment in East Valley, while West Valley continues to pass on the idea (Glendale recently shot it down for example), is helping economically to revitalize the inner parts of East Valley while we are not seeing this in West Valley. East Valley is closer to more mountains and more parks (simple geography) etc.
Alhambra might gentrify slightly along the light rail corridor on 19th avenue but Phoenicians for the longest time and always associated "streets" as higher income and "avenues" as lower income. Look at the mansions near Central Corridor for proof of that. Uptown it's always been known that street side or East side was better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hschlick84
It's only going to get worse until construction, material and resources costs decrease. It's a reflection of the prices and market value of what people are willing to pay to purchase a house. Yes, I agree with what you're saying.
I agree with what you are saying too, but even assuming those do go down, developers will never lower rents and just save that extra cash for themselves. As I said before, housing is a need, and only the privileged can try to live with family in the hopes of cost of living going down. Therefore, most people will still be paying those rents. Therefore, the market that pays the current rates will always be there.
Though it would be interesting to see that, let's say rents do go down, how many people would stop being roommates and moved to one bedrooms. I would imagine that may turn more profit for a landlord or developer, but that would only be until a one bedroom or studio could match the price of half (or close to) of a two bedroom unit.
To be honest, suburban PHX overall looks quite the same. If someone blindfolded me and covered up the street signs so I didn't know where I was, I couldn't tell the difference between Surprise and Glendale, Gilbert and Chandler, El Mirage or Mesa. The few unique burbs (ie Scottsdale, Fountain Hills, etc) are the ones most people are attracted to, and you'll get stuck paying a premium to live there. Same goes for "unique" areas of PHX, ie Biltmore, Arcadia, etc.
I find this is the case because it is just like Long Island. There are few declaration signs of where Surprise ends and you're now in El Mirage. When I first moved here I didn't realize where any town lines were because they aren't present, only a few cities actually do this like Sun City and Surprise (though only from going north on I think Seems.)
Alhambra might gentrify slightly along the light rail corridor on 19th avenue but Phoenicians for the longest time and always associated "streets" as higher income and "avenues" as lower income. Look at the mansions near Central Corridor for proof of that. Uptown it's always been known that street side or East side was better.
I'd really like to see evidence how light rail is helping with revitalization. The existing light rail has been running for nearly 10 years, and yet much of 19th Avenue and west Camelback Road are still littered with run down structures & empty buildings. The Washington/Jefferson corridor is still junky, and hasn't changed much at all in 10 years or longer. There is still a fenced off vacant lot near the Central & Camelback light rail station which was once proposed to have condo towers. Plenty of vacant land still remains on north Central Avenue amongst the office towers.
Not quite fully agreeing with income disparity with streets vs. avenues. I realize west Phoenix is generally more working class & poorer, but there are plenty of lower income neighborhoods in east Phoenix ... yet even the poorer areas on the east side seem a bit cleaner, somewhat greener, and generally less sketchy than the west. Just my observation.
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,610,214 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Native
I'd really like to see evidence how light rail is helping with revitalization. The existing light rail has been running for nearly 10 years, and yet much of 19th Avenue and west Camelback Road are still littered with run down structures & empty buildings. The Washington/Jefferson corridor is still junky, and hasn't changed much at all in 10 years or longer. There is still a fenced off vacant lot near the Central & Camelback light rail station which was once proposed to have condo towers. Plenty of vacant land still remains on north Central Avenue amongst the office towers.
Not quite fully agreeing with income disparity with streets vs. avenues. I realize west Phoenix is generally more working class & poorer, but there are plenty of lower income neighborhoods in east Phoenix ... yet even the poorer areas on the east side seem a bit cleaner, somewhat greener, and generally less sketchy than the west. Just my observation.
The area where I live at 12th St& Washington is much better now than it was prior to the rail, though east of 16th St, it turns kind of dumpy again
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