Chicago-area native - thing I've noticed about downtown Phoenix (Scottsdale: real estate, rent)

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by Prickly Pear

You aren't understanding me. It needs to be only shade trees along places where there are pedestrians and cyclists. Switching between them is still not enough. We can't grow shade trees as thick and luscious as out east and because of that we need only shade trees as they are not as efficient. In addition our sun is more brutal given we are one of the least cloudy places in the US. Walk that section of Chandler you are referring to during the peak of the day and tell me if it's enough shade. I'll give you a hint: it won't be.

Beverly Hills is not as hot and can afford to have sunnier sidewalks than we can because people won't be at risk for dying being a pedestrian walking outside during the peak of the day from heat stroke.

Again palm trees serve a purpose... not where pedestrians are. Random spot in your backyard? Sure. Medians? Sure. Along the light rail corridor and in our more walkable areas? Absolutely not.

And like the poster said below me, require more maintenance and water which comes out of our taxes.



If palm trees provided better shade and/or carbon absorption I'd have a different opinion, but they require a lot of maintenance with little payoff.

If you can’t imagine a world where shade trees and palm trees co exist without gaps (simple short spacing like in Chandler) that’s on you.

I’m kinda over this ridiculous argument

[Prickly Pear]

Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64

If you can’t imagine a world where shade trees and palm trees co exist without gaps (simple short spacing like in Chandler) that’s on you.

I’m kinda over this ridiculous argument

Or you could quit fangirling over a certain tree purely for aesthetic purposes and realize that palm trees are inefficient and impractical to creating urban places in a city that's so hot.

Breaks, regardless of size, in the tree canopy are not enough in areas with pedestrians. The sun is brutal here, you should know that. Or have you never spent significant amounts of time outside in the summer, as a pedestrian? Because many have not who live here, even people born and raised, and I wouldn't put it past you for not knowing any better. It usually takes experience dealing with something before realizing what is truly wrong with the situation. Palm trees may look great and are still trees (which is good in general) but they are not the best tree. We should be pushing for the best tree that is more effective and use less water and cost less, of which we have a few options.

I recommend ditching your car and being a pedestrian for a few days and still doing errands. Going to the grocery store, taking the bus, and you'll realize that many of our shade trees even alone, because they have are too far apart, simply does not do enough. It's worse when it's only palms or a mixture, with any kind of break in between.

We have areas of town that are an exception to this. Like N Central above Glendale avenue towards Northern. Great tree canopy there. But that's a very small part of our very large city. Here's a good location. The trees aren't inches apart but you can tell it's late afternoon and most of the sidewalk is decently shaded even from trees on the other side of the street:

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5446...7i16384!8i8192

We are not going to get a Downtown like Chicago until we make it not so gruesome and difficult to walk around. The sun does not help anyone when it's July.

[Valley Native]

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4237...7i16384!8i8192

Mill Avenue in downtown Tempe is a decently shaded street. I'm definitely in favor of more shade trees. Anything to filter the intense sun. The one big problem with shade trees on a busy streetscape is the bird poop, and pigeon droppings are the worst!

[ElleTea]

Okay, how did a post about downtown become an argument about shade trees? I think we get the point.

[Prickly Pear]

Originally Posted by ElleTea

Okay, how did a post about downtown become an argument about shade trees? I think we get the point.

You can't have a pleasant Downtown without decent shade from the sun and its heat. Phoenix has very few shade trees and/or shade structures. Otherwise people will not be pedestrians, they'll choose to drive instead with A/C and all. Make it more pleasant to be outside and things start to change.

[Finger Laker]

Urban city didn't develop as urban because of share trees

Cities that developed after suburbanization aren't going to become love their more urban predecessors because of shade trees

Sure, they're nice....... But it's pretty simplistic to think that is a major hinge in city development

[Prickly Pear]

Originally Posted by Finger Laker

Urban city didn't develop as urban because of share trees

Cities that developed after suburbanization aren't going to become love their more urban predecessors because of shade trees

Sure, they're nice....... But it's pretty simplistic to think that is a major hinge in city development

Are any of those cities as hot as Phoenix? Because if you’re going to compare us to somewhere like NYC then that’s a bit moot here, they developed in a different time and have the high rises that make up for it.

Besides two other posters brought up shade trees and their importance before me, they really are important. Have you ever been a pedestrian without a car in Phoenix? I’m doubtful you have ever been or you’d understand.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by Prickly Pear

Are any of those cities as hot as Phoenix? Because if you’re going to compare us to somewhere like NYC then that’s a bit moot here, they developed in a different time and have the high rises that make up for it.

Besides two other posters brought up shade trees and their importance before me, they really are important. Have you ever been a pedestrian without a car in Phoenix? I’m doubtful you have ever been or you’d understand.

I would like to see more shade trees, but I really think the suburban areas could use more of them than the downtown areas. I mentioned that Mill Avenue is shaded, which adds an aesthetic value to a certain point, but then there are issues with bird droppings (especially pigeons). As they say: a bird in the hand is better than one overhead!

What downtown Phoenix needs more of is highrises, which have their own way of providing shade. I realize the mere mention of taller structures doesn't sit well with the NIMBY/small thinker/hick town types, but that's too bad. Phoenix is the nation's 5th largest city, and it's time that we start looking & acting more like it, which would include a more majestic skyline than what we currently have.

[KurtAZ]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

What downtown Phoenix needs more of is highrises, which have their own way of providing shade. I realize the mere mention of taller structures doesn't sit well with the NIMBY/small thinker/hick town types, but that's too bad. Phoenix is the nation's 5th largest city, and it's time that we start looking & acting more like it, which would include a more majestic skyline than what we currently have.

Again...if the money was there...they would build them (as long as they stay out of the flight path). Saying you want highrises for the sake of having highrises doesn't make it so. Building costs money...a LOT...so if a developer doesn't have at least a couple key tenants to make the project worthwhile, no highrises.

[Finger Laker]

Originally Posted by Prickly Pear

Are any of those cities as hot as Phoenix? Because if you’re going to compare us to somewhere like NYC then that’s a bit moot here, they developed in a different time and have the high rises that make up for it.

Besides two other posters brought up shade trees and their importance before me, they really are important. Have you ever been a pedestrian without a car in Phoenix? I’m doubtful you have ever been or you’d understand.

Phoenix isn't the only city with weather. I've done my fair share of sweating and baking in urban cities, along with dealing with snow, wind, rain and other unpleasant items

I didn't have a car for my first 8 months here, moving here in summer - I didn't need one in previous cities

Again, a shade tree is nice...... But it isn't a driver of why a city is built as a dense, urban environment

There are plenty of old cities, that have a lot of pedestrians and for traffic that get really uncomfortably hot that manage to exist without a tree canopy