Are new homes really built that bad (live, store)

[FrmFltn]

I’m in construction and I’m moving to the Phx area.
We looked at new housing. There is lots of it. One worry I have, with the current new construction explosion, is the quality of work. The trades are stretched and it’s easy to see. Lead times on new homes are being missed and not many homes are going up at one time.
Read or listen closely to what people in the tract you’re looking at are saying about quality and availability. Things like nails hitting pipes, flat drywall, roofing leaks caused by faulty workmanship.
This isn’t doom and gloom.
Do your homework; if they’re building where you’re buying, talk to the workers. They’ll tell you. It’s a temporary bubble but it’s happening a lot in the west.
We bought an existing home.

[beez74]

If you buy one of the lower priced base model homes like mentioned above make sure its the things you can deal with and know what base model means before you buy. I sit and chuckle all day reading post after post on my next door app at folks non stop complaining about the cheap quality of the things used in the base model homes THEY picked and did the walk thru on and now that they are all moved in and stuck with it they cant stand it and EVERYTHING is an issue like they didnt already know before they signed. I personally do not see an issue with starting base model and adding my own features because I'd like to consider myself handy and can add things myself that a builder charges tons of money for but again I knew what I was getting before hand....Do the research ahead of time. I do not even watch reality TV anymore I read next door for my entertainment

[CLEOPATRAZEUS]

Last few replies were very very helpful. Some very knowledgeable people on new housing in Phoenix. Good information.. Thanks. The Next Door site in my area is entertaining also but great for lost dogs...

[Sno0909]

Originally Posted by wase4711

Planned obsolescence is a reality for things like appliances, many electronics, and more..mfgs want you to have to replace your "stuff" earlier than in the past; they use the excuse that new technology is evolving so quickly, that you need to "replace" your stuff regularly to keep up with the tech..

I defy anyone to get a modern electronic appliance, (stove, fridge, cooktop, etc) to last more than 10 years now a days; in the "olden days" quality appliances could easily last 20 years or so..not now a days..

Cars do last longer with less trouble, but remember, the "average" price of a car in 2020 is 30K +, so they should last longer than the junk we paid 10K for 20 years ago...

The big difference is that in the "olden days" people would have their appliances fixed by the local repairman or whatever. They would last 20 years because the people of that generation seemed to value money a little more. They would take care of things and get them fixed.

I feel like nowadays we all have this "throw it away and just buy a new one" mentality. Case in point, our neighborhood has bulk trash pickup this week. A guy a few houses down from me had a Toro lawnmower sitting out on his curb...thing looked new. I took it home. It wouldn't start, but I noticed a cable had snapped. Went to ACE and spent about $3 on a new cable and now I own a newer lawn mower. Instead of even attempting to fix it, the guy just threw it away. I could never imagine my grandfather doing something like that back in the day.

So, I think it might be a little bit of both. Stuff was probably made a little better back then. It probably has a lot to do with the stuff being manufactured in the US with some sort of pride, as opposed to basically slave labor manufacturing in China.

[wase4711]

good points; I guess the main thing is, there are few, if any, qualified repair people/companies out there to call to try and fix many of these things now a days, so replacement versus repair is often your only choice...

I forgot what a "lawn mower" actually is out here!

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by wase4711

good points; I guess the main thing is, there are few, if any, qualified repair people/companies out there to call to try and fix many of these things now a days, so replacement versus repair is often your only choice...

I forgot what a "lawn mower" actually is out here!

Back in 2011, I packed a mower and a weed whip. I've been looking at it in the garage ever since.

But you are right, now-a-days, no one is around to fix things. Find me a TV repair person or small engine repair person and he will be 10 years or less from retirement.

[man4857]

Originally Posted by wase4711

Planned obsolescence is a reality for things like appliances, many electronics, and more..mfgs want you to have to replace your "stuff" earlier than in the past; they use the excuse that new technology is evolving so quickly, that you need to "replace" your stuff regularly to keep up with the tech..

I defy anyone to get a modern electronic appliance, (stove, fridge, cooktop, etc) to last more than 10 years now a days; in the "olden days" quality appliances could easily last 20 years or so..not now a days..

Cars do last longer with less trouble, but remember, the "average" price of a car in 2020 is 30K +, so they should last longer than the junk we paid 10K for 20 years ago...

I disagree with the "planned obsolescence". What looks to most consumers as planned obsolescence is primarily driven by cost reduction wanted by consumers. Consumers want the cheapest product that works well enough and they do not care how it's built. Hence today, you can buy a Washer & Dryer (albeit a simple one) for roughly $800-900. Fridges for <$500. If you do a quick google search, the trend is noticeable, for example, back in 1972, you can get a side-by-side fridge, with largely the same features you'd find today (just way smaller @ 13 cubic feet), for $700 dollars (1972), or ~$4350 today's dollars (inflation adjusted). Whoever pays $4000 for a fridge today would be looked at like a crazy madman. Today? We have fridges costing a fraction of what it did back then AND double the space.

Driving the cost down is good for consumers. Durable (i.e. 10+ yrs) or not, the value you're receiving is much better than it was before. But at the end of the day, people are just NOT willing to pay for a quality piece of well built appliance.

Same trend with homes. This is all easily searchable facts. Americans are buying bigger and bigger homes than they used to a couple decades ago. Before a 1300-1500 sq ft home was the norm, today it's at 2000+ feet. Yet there are threads concerning about the quality of a home. (aside from the fact that the housing market isn't a true market like appliances are so prices are out of whack) Now the same trend with cars is happening, people are ditching sedans in favor of SUVs and cross overs... bigger and cheaper is "better" in America, not quality. If you want "quality", spend the money for it. Otherwise, you get what you pay for.

[wase4711]

Planned obsolescence is as real as it gets; I was an executive for many years in the consumer electronics industry and we always talked about taking things out of products so they not only would be cheaper, but needed to replaced sooner than later; I know for a fact that many of my friends in that industry did the same exact thing..

It might have been done under the guise of "better value" or more "bang for your buck"; the endless marketing BS that would come with these new, cheaper, shorter life items was a laugh to me, but, as you said, many consumers didn't care; they just wanted the cheapest piece of krap they could get just to get by..

What annoys the hell out of me is that those of us who WANT better made, high end, longer lasting products. can rarely, if EVER, even find them anymore; just because you pay double for a fully featured, high end appliance, there is no guarantee that it will last any longer than the cheap POS someone else bought at a low end retail store...

Many of us don't mind paying more for higher quality; problem is, now a days, its almost impossible, at ANY price to find well made, longer lasting Consumer Products..

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by man4857

I disagree with the "planned obsolescence". What looks to most consumers as planned obsolescence is primarily driven by cost reduction wanted by consumers. Consumers want the cheapest product that works well enough and they do not care how it's built.

I strongly agree with your point. Let's pick on chairs and couches. Talk with any manufacture rep and they will explain that the retailers won't buy their product until they cut their costs: again, and again, and again. So the manufacturers are "cutting in the bone" so to speak. So while it looks good for 10 feet away, the vendors cut a wood brace here, installed fewer screws, put on cheap fabrics on the back, glue versus screw, make with softer less expensive woods, and try to cut weight etc etc. In the end, it might look good for 3-5 years and that's it. If they added another $100 on the bill of material, they could have made a much better product. But the average consumer doesn't research the inside. Rather they are concerned about what it might look like from 10 feet away. To some degree, this is the same thing with tract housing.

At the same token, manufacturers want to maximize their profits. As wase4711 accurately pointed out, you can spend $3500 on a fridge and the compressor is going to sh_t-the-bed in about 5-7 years. So it wasn't that a consumer would not pay $4K ($500 more) for a better compressor. Many would pay $500 more for a 10-year fridge or $1000 more 15 year Fridge. But the vendors won't make it. There are fewer manufacturers (same nameplates but only a few parent companies through merging).

I was warned by my MN appliance sales rep that appliances are now designed to last 5 years. And that includes my $3500 Fridge. It's been 4 years and everything is working perfectly. Fingers crossed. My 2011 AZ appliances have been working stong for 9 years but I unplug them for 6 months. So math wise, it's been around 5 years.

In short, you both are right. And so is snow (people are disposable and don't try and fix things). Because of it, there is a lot fewer service people walking the planet even when things break faster.

[unit731]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

Let's pick on chairs and couches.

Furniture delivery - new house.

The furniture store will not deliver unless someone is there (in this case).

So I was asked to be at new house of someone I know. For the furniture delivery.

ALL of the furniture from lounge chairs, to sofas, to love seats, to dining room table/chairs. ALL Made in Vietnam.

That house was sold furnished couple years later for over $2,000,000.