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Too bad Mayor Gallego can't be as assertive as Las Vegas Mayor Goodman, who is rightfully calling the closing of businesses "insanity". That's exactly what it is. We have over 4,500 confirmed COVID 19 cases in Arizona & over 2,000 cases in Maricopa County, which admittedly is nothing to sweep under the rug, but it's not anywhere near what the hot spots (NYC, Detroit, etc.) are reporting. Even in those places, it's roughly 1% of the population who have tested positive.
We're forcing a 10 to 15% unemployment rate, and nearly 40% of small businesses to close down or restrict their services all because of a virus that's affecting <1% of the total population. Enough of this isolation nonsense. It's abnormal, unAmerican, and in many ways unconstitutional. The restrictions need to be lifted ... although in a cautious way. We can't go on like this much longer before the economy collapses and chaos breaks out.
First, the reason you only have 4500+ cases (so far) is because of the "insanity" of isolation and social distancing.
Second, there is no reason for the economy to collapse when the federal government just prints more money.
Since Nixon took us off the gold standard back in 1969(?), the dollar is only backed by the full faith and credit of the United States of America, which is just a fancy way of saying we have a license to print money as needed just like every other country that prints money.
Isn't it funny how every time Republicans want to wage war or give trillion dollar tax cuts to billionaires and millionaires they have zero concerns for budget deficits but when Democrats want to extend economic breaks to the working and middle class, the Republicans whine and cry crocodile tears ad nauseam about the burden on future generations?
Stop falling for the economic okey-doke of the Republicans.
Yes, but there's a reason why I went the long way. To shed light on reality that most people seem to be ignoring or by selective willful ignorance. Financial irresponsibility has gotten to the point it needs to be shamed outright individually and all organizations in this country to get people to do better. Part of the problem is talks about finances is taboo in social settings which is wrong. We need to be more open about it. Accept criticism, refocus ourselves and try to do better.
Now with the credit issue, we're not going to have a point in the economy where there's 0 debts for any organization. It's about the balance sheets. The economy functions as a nice machine if everyone has enough cash flow (job/taxes/etc.) with a sufficient rainy day fund to weather economic shocks of various magnitudes.
Credit will exist in government, which is fine. It's more about reasonable expectations for expenditures that generates said debt. Financial system reforms will need to happen obviously - regulation will need to be enacted. Lending standards will have to be tightened for certain things to remove the temptation for credit.
Part of the issue with this fixing the credit issue is again pointed to the wealth gap accumulated over the past 4-5 decades because of our consistent philosophically driven agenda to drive smaller government - by lowering taxes without adherence to rational mathematical based logic based on the budget. A few people in our population controls the majority of the wealth so if we as a society needs to fix anything - we will need to have an honest discussion on where the real wealth is because 85-90% of Americans don't have that kind of wealth. Then add the politics and media on top of this and this is the mess we have. Smaller government is all well and fine - if you legitimately balance out how and what to shift to the state government's budget (and the tax consequences as a result i.e. AZ will raise taxes if the Fed lowers its taxes to spend how AZ deems necessary for certain items).
As for more efficient government, I'm all for it but expenditures will need to be set aside to invest just like any business. But if you have constituencies screaming for lower taxes all the time without thinking, it's difficult for politicians to pass "pork" projects.
We're not that far off in thinking but you're talking about grand schemes to fundamentally change the structure of the economy. That's all well and good for a political thread (I know they merge here often) but we are talking the here and now.
People are not earning, not paying taxes, all governments depend on taxes, borrowing won't be possible if there's nobody to pay the debt, borrowing costs will rise, everything economic will dry up, and we'll be left with a husk of a country.
What we are experiencing now is nothing compared to when the Federal debt goes from $25 trillion, to $35T, $45T, $55T, etc. All in what will be record time. The trickle down effect at the local level will be absolutely devastating, especially in states like AZ that depend so heavily on sales taxes.
Guess a lot depends on where you live and/or the people you socialize with.
Unless with close friends I rarely discuss politics. Unfortunately there are people who can't agree to disagree and feel they hold a moral high ground.
I find it best to avoid to such conversations. I often like the person but won't be baited into a political argument.
It’s weird how sitting behind a keyboard can remove inhibitions. Actually, it’s even weirder for me to type that while posting in an online forum. With most casual friends, I don’t discuss politics unless maybe they’re related to an issue or cause that brought us together in the first place. The same people who are reserved about their views in person can go crazy on social media. In any case, I agree with your advice. I don’t argue (I save that for here!). I just unfollow.
First, the reason you only have 4500+ cases (so far) is because of the "insanity" of isolation and social distancing.
Second, there is no reason for the economy to collapse when the federal government just prints more money.
Since Nixon took us off the gold standard back in 1969(?), the dollar is only backed by the full faith and credit of the United States of America, which is just a fancy way of saying we have a license to print money as needed just like every other country that prints money.
Isn't it funny how every time Republicans want to wage war or give trillion dollar tax cuts to billionaires and millionaires they have zero concerns for budget deficits but when Democrats want to extend economic breaks to the working and middle class, the Republicans whine and cry crocodile tears ad nauseam about the burden on future generations?
Stop falling for the economic okey-doke of the Republicans.
I grew up and then owned rental property for 20 years in the liberal Democratic utopia of San Francisco. For a city its size SF is one of the richest in the States. It's also completely mismanaged. God only knows where all the money goes.
I recall the first time my wife and I walked in a local Mesa park (not far from Power and Brown.) Mesa is city with a fraction of money SF has pouring in.
Anyway I used the bathroom in this park and was amazed. Not only was fairly clean there was toilet paper too. I expected it to be a dirty mess which is par for almost any public bathroom in SF assuming you find one open.
Agreed. Because they are just starting to get the data in. But before the last couple of CA studies, it was a whole different situation. So the data to open up sooner than later is VERY hopeful: just not definitive.
I certainly don't expect the decisions will have anything to do with "data". That would be quite a departure from what we've seen to date. The pressure to re-open is mounting and I expect it will be politically untenable to ask restaurants, etc, to remain closed past May. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.
The data indicate that, in contrast with what many including me had come to believe, we are still on the rising side of the curve and the state models reflect this as well. I think we will go to mid-May with most of the shutdown (and remember, Arizona's semi-shutdown is roughly what other states are doing with re-opening.) At that point, everyone will have had enough and we will all agree that it is best to just let the vulnerable die or fend for themselves.
We agree that things are still on the rise. Hence, opening up the spigot now is risky. The data I currently care most about is the death rate: who, how, and why so I can access my risk as well as others. But especially the percentage. IF we have 55x more people who have the antibodies, that's a game-changer and should impact how we proceed.
We're not that far off in thinking but you're talking about grand schemes to fundamentally change the structure of the economy. That's all well and good for a political thread (I know they merge here often) but we are talking the here and now.
People are not earning, not paying taxes, all governments depend on taxes, borrowing won't be possible if there's nobody to pay the debt, borrowing costs will rise, everything economic will dry up, and we'll be left with a husk of a country.
What we are experiencing now is nothing compared to when the Federal debt goes from $25 trillion, to $35T, $45T, $55T, etc. All in what will be record time. The trickle down effect at the local level will be absolutely devastating, especially in states like AZ that depend so heavily on sales taxes.
I don't disagree with the rise in debt but this is in the short term. For now, we need the federal government to essentially plug the cash flow hole generated by the stay at home orders so that we can lean on the side of caution to reduce the spread of the disease and fight it. We would rather play it safer than be sorry. I won't be surprised if the Feds borrow 10T+ after this is all said and done. The consumption part of our economy alone is roughly about 15-16T and we're shutting that off mostly. But this is all short term. What I talked about is the long term fix, we need to change the fundamental structures of the economy, social fabric if you will so that we don't put ourselves in this situation again.
A thread like this where people are asking to reopen ASAP doesn't seem to quantify the risks in doing this too quickly knowing that this virus is extremely contagious. Yeah we can be smart about certain things - if you want to make things complicated. Or just stay home for several months. We're only 1.5 months in, it hasn't been that long. Yes we're "blowing up" the economy in the short term - but this isn't what is all it's made out to be. Unemployment will be historically high, but it's not the apocalypse. Economically we can always rebuild. We have the human capital and the entrepreneurs still out there.
I certainly don't expect the decisions will have anything to do with "data". That would be quite a departure from what we've seen to date. The pressure to re-open is mounting and I expect it will be politically untenable to ask restaurants, etc, to remain closed past May. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.
It's going to be a blend of data plus politics plus economics. But not in that order.
I don't disagree with the rise in debt but this is in the short term. For now, we need the federal government to essentially plug the cash flow hole generated by the stay at home orders so that we can lean on the side of caution to reduce the spread of the disease and fight it. We would rather play it safer than be sorry. I won't be surprised if the Feds borrow 10T+ after this is all said and done. The consumption part of our economy alone is roughly about 15-16T and we're shutting that off mostly. But this is all short term. What I talked about is the long term fix, we need to change the fundamental structures of the economy, social fabric if you will so that we don't put ourselves in this situation again.
A thread like this where people are asking to reopen ASAP doesn't seem to quantify the risks in doing this too quickly knowing that this virus is extremely contagious. Yeah we can be smart about certain things - if you want to make things complicated. Or just stay home for several months. We're only 1.5 months in, it hasn't been that long. Yes we're "blowing up" the economy in the short term - but this isn't what is all it's made out to be. Unemployment will be historically high, but it's not the apocalypse. Economically we can always rebuild. We have the human capital and the entrepreneurs still out there.
Just like the virus, we don't know that this is short term and we don't know that we can rebuild in a reasonable amount of time, say less than 10 to 15 years.
So at least a few people are listening to the obvious....
Who out here is getting tested? I thought I saw something from the state that showed a majority of those being tested were middle aged to younger (can't seem to find it now).
Are people just going out to get tested? Anyone here done it?
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