Phoenix and all other Valley cities need to reopen ASAP! (appointed, hair salon)
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Because we're supposed to be one of the "safer" metro areas due to our mostly detached way of living, remember? Our climate is also supposed to act as a deterrent according to some. It might reach the 90s next week, and that means the 100s probably aren't too far off, then the intense heat will take over & finally kill off this mean ol' virus. In any event, I say proceed with some caution, but keeping businesses closed/restricted & everybody at home is a hell of a lot more devastating to people than COVID 19 will ever be.
Can you provide actual data to support that detached suburban living is inherently less at risk than living in higher density zones?
Japan, Singapore, South Korea are examples of proof that high urban living does not correlate to high diagnoses of covid-19. What does correlate to control of the virus is effective public health programs in place, which we do not have. I could go on a tangent but I’m not going to.
I attended a conference a couple days ago and at this time there is data to support that low humidity environments (15%-45% give or take) result in lower coronavirus survivability on fomites in comparison to relative humidity of 45-65% for non-porous surfaces such as acrylic and stainless steel. More porous objects such as money show relatively low similar values. Assuming same temperature for both. This may be Arizona’s strength in the future as we dry up in June like normal and our temperatures rise. Data still shows that it’s more likely to be contracted through droplet rather than fomite. Given that droplets are more of a concern than fomites, would indicate we still need shelter in place orders until it’s more controlled because that’s between person to person.
Fomites are a term used for any inanimate object that may aid the spread of an infectious disease. Such as a teddy bear, or a bag of chips. Droplets generally refer to close respiratory contact with an infected person.
I should note lower survivability does not mean it kills it off. It just means it doesn’t stay as long. We still need these protections in place until globally it’s much more secured. Just because Arizona is more arid and hot does not mean you still can’t get it here. It’s just less likely. Especially given we are indoors most of the time where it’s not super hot inside and quite a few of us still use swamp coolers.
Any priority of the economy over the lives of yourself and others is a selfish notion, and one I do not understand the logic of and would not support. Our economy needs healthy and thriving people in order to survive. And we as people definitely need to be healthy and thriving in order to survive. We need to be smart and sacrifice for a while in the short term to have a better long term.
Excluding the Health workers on the front lines, selfishly, I say open it up! Meanwhile, I am staying put! Honestly, I could last for months the way I am living. Thankfully I have spacious home with all the creature comforts. Business came roaring back this month. Honestly, I’d like to work a little less. LOL
That all said, all of you finish getting sick and or die (let the fittest survive ) so researchers can learn from the guinea pigs who desperately want out of their cage. Lol
My gut says NYC will happen all over the country on a grander scale. Give it a try! I’ll be hiding 6 feet behind you cheering you on.
So do you think Ducey will try to open gradually on May 1st? Or wait a couple of more weeks?
Compared to many states we are already open. I'm planning my sunbird move to Wisconsin and it appears you can't even mow your lawn there. No construction is taking place. Places like HomeDepot are closed or restricted so badly you would wait all day to get in. In Michigan you can't use a motor boat.
Anyway, yes I think we are going to see some relaxation near the beginning of May. Not bars but maybe outdoor seating in restaurants, every other table or something, back to work for people who can do so with protections/distancing. Elective surgeries may come back this week or hospitals are going to go broke. Like everywhere else, so much depends on the ability to detect a relapse and testing here and nationally is a total fiasco.
Interestingly the IMHE model that everyone seems to like came out with a new run today that cuts our death toll by over 2/3, but for whatever reason drags it out so long that they recommend social distancing be enforced all the way into June. That is the downside of "flattening", I guess. Kill 3000 over a few days and be done with it or 300 over a few weeks.
Can you provide actual data to support that detached suburban living is inherently less at risk than living in higher density zones?
Japan, Singapore, South Korea are examples of proof that high urban living does not correlate to high diagnoses of covid-19. What does correlate to control of the virus is effective public health programs in place, which we do not have. I could go on a tangent but I’m not going to.
I attended a conference a couple days ago and at this time there is data to support that low humidity environments (15%-45% give or take) result in lower coronavirus survivability on fomites in comparison to relative humidity of 45-65% for non-porous surfaces such as acrylic and stainless steel. More porous objects such as money show relatively low similar values. Assuming same temperature for both. This may be Arizona’s strength in the future as we dry up in June like normal and our temperatures rise. Data still shows that it’s more likely to be contracted through droplet rather than fomite. Given that droplets are more of a concern than fomites, would indicate we still need shelter in place orders until it’s more controlled because that’s between person to person.
Fomites are a term used for any inanimate object that may aid the spread of an infectious disease. Such as a teddy bear, or a bag of chips. Droplets generally refer to close respiratory contact with an infected person.
I should note lower survivability does not mean it kills it off. It just means it doesn’t stay as long. We still need these protections in place until globally it’s much more secured. Just because Arizona is more arid and hot does not mean you still can’t get it here. It’s just less likely. Especially given we are indoors most of the time where it’s not super hot inside and quite a few of us still use swamp coolers.
Any priority of the economy over the lives of yourself and others is a selfish notion, and one I do not understand the logic of and would not support. Our economy needs healthy and thriving people in order to survive. And we as people definitely need to be healthy and thriving in order to survive. We need to be smart and sacrifice for a while in the short term to have a better long term.
My feeling is Prime Mister Abe downplayed the numbers in an attempt to keep the 2020 Olympics on track.
Well, we know that's not happening and recently Abe declared a state of emergency in Tokyo and six other hard-hit Japanese prefectures.
China? Forget it. Their leadership has been lying since day one about almost everything connected to the outbreak.
I tend to believe what Singapore and South Korea report.
Excluding the Health workers on the front lines, selfishly, I say open it up! Meanwhile, I am staying put! Honestly, I could last for months the way I am living. Thankfully I have spacious home with all the creature comforts. Business came roaring back this month. Honestly, I’d like to work a little less. LOL
That all said, all of you finish getting sick and or die (let the fittest survive ) so researchers can learn from the guinea pigs who desperately want out of their cage. Lol
My gut says NYC will happen all over the country on a grander scale. Give it a try! I’ll be hiding 6 feet behind you cheering you on.
Now this is funny! Right though, if it weren't for the healthcare workers that they'd be jeopardizing, a little Darwinism wouldn't be a bad thing.
It will be interesting to see if there will be a spike in MI's numbers after all those bumpkins were stacked up on top of each other at the Capitol building this week.
I really can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic with this whole thing. Maybe not undertaking social cues is a symptom of the virus and I’m about the be screwed! Either way, I think we need to learn from history and not let our guard down prematurely. None of these conspiracy theorists ranting and raving about their liberties being stripped have come up with anything to support their claim that it’s safe to open things up at this point.
First of all, stripping away our freedoms is very real and happening right before our eyes. There's no conspiracy theory behind that. How long do you suggest we continue with all these restrictions? There's no way we can continue this way unless you truly want to see the economy go into complete ruin (as if it already hasn't been ruined enough). At that point, you'll get a good dose of what a third world country is like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prickly Pear
Can you provide actual data to support that detached suburban living is inherently less at risk than living in higher density zones?
Japan, Singapore, South Korea are examples of proof that high urban living does not correlate to high diagnoses of covid-19.
You're talking to the wrong person, Prickly Pear! You need to address these very points to Autism360, ASUfan, KurtAZ, and others who apparently subscribe to the notion that detached suburban living is less risky. I'm only saying that since the Phoenix area does seem to be one of the lesser affected metro areas in comparison to Detroit, New Orleans, and many of the eastern cities, we need to quit stalling around & allowing this nonsense to continue. The Mayor of Las Vegas is correct by demanding that her city be reopened for business, and Phoenix's Mayor should be gutsy enough to do the same.
First of all, stripping away our freedoms is very real and happening right before our eyes. There's no conspiracy theory behind that. How long do you suggest we continue with all these restrictions? There's no way we can continue this way unless you truly want to see the economy go into complete ruin (as if it already hasn't been ruined enough). At that point, you'll get a good dose of what a third world country is like.
What DATA suggests that more will die by leaving us pseudo-quarantined than opened back up? I'm really not arguing one way or the other, I'm simply asking for the conversation to be data driven over fear and emotions.
I do, however, see the conspiracy nuts freaking out that this is some evil plan to control humankind, so whether you see it or not, it's there. Being told you can't get your hair dyed during a pandemic is nowhere near government enslaving us, or whatever it us that they're so terrified of. There is a true lack of rational thought and I just can't comprehend the fear that allows one to take such a jump.
What DATA suggests that more will die by leaving us pseudo-quarantined than opened back up? I'm really not arguing one way or the other, I'm simply asking for the conversation to be data driven over fear and emotions.
Well, we've been under a near quarantine in Arizona for nearly a month with many businesses closed or restricted, and it's evident that more people are isolating themselves or wearing masks when they go out ... yet, the data shows COVID 19 numbers keep increasing here despite all the restrictions. Please address your concern of reactions based on fear & emotions to the government bodies who forced businesses to close and people to lose their only source of income. Address it to all the hoarders who cleaned out store shelves in a rage of panic. The intrusive government & Chicken Littles of the world are the ones who reacted strictly out of fear & emotion, plain & simple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitN8V
I do, however, see the conspiracy nuts freaking out that this is some evil plan to control humankind, so whether you see it or not, it's there. Being told you can't get your hair dyed during a pandemic is nowhere near government enslaving us, or whatever it us that they're so terrified of. There is a true lack of rational thought and I just can't comprehend the fear that allows one to take such a jump.
Being told what we can & can't do, or where we can & can't go is clearly an overreach of government authority ... no conspiracy theory involved in this fact.
Compared to many states we are already open. I'm planning my sunbird move to Wisconsin and it appears you can't even mow your lawn there. No construction is taking place. Places like HomeDepot are closed or restricted so badly you would wait all day to get in. In Michigan you can't use a motor boat.
Anyway, yes I think we are going to see some relaxation near the beginning of May. Not bars but maybe outdoor seating in restaurants, every other table or something, back to work for people who can do so with protections/distancing. Elective surgeries may come back this week or hospitals are going to go broke. Like everywhere else, so much depends on the ability to detect a relapse and testing here and nationally is a total fiasco.
Interestingly the IMHE model that everyone seems to like came out with a new run today that cuts our death toll by over 2/3, but for whatever reason drags it out so long that they recommend social distancing be enforced all the way into June. That is the downside of "flattening", I guess. Kill 3000 over a few days and be done with it or 300 over a few weeks.
Which is why I am so glad I live in AZ. Now if we could just get away from California...LOL...
I'm thinking Ducey may wait until mid-May. I think the issue he faces is that testing and tracing in AZ have to improve to justify any opening up of businesses. Don't know if that can be achieved in another 2 weeks.
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Right though, if it weren't for the healthcare workers that they'd be jeopardizing, a little Darwinism wouldn't be a bad thing.
