Phoenix and all other Valley cities need to reopen ASAP! (houses, job market)

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by john3232

For many who are falling behind in their rent, car payments and other bills they need to return to work.

They don't give a damn about a mathematically modeled prediction if the Dodge Ram truck they bought two years ago might be repossessed.

Yea, the drumbeat is going to get louder. Including people who are wealthy not wanting their businesses crushed. They are more than happy to flip the switch on.

But your are right. 63% of the people qualify as "broke" because they don't have a $500 emergency fund https://www.forbes.com/sites/maggiem.../#169b78404e0d

Whatever the right answer happens to be, I don't think it should come from someone who has $500 in total reserve. Shame on them for buying that new Dodge Ram.

[man4857]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

Yea, the drumbeat is going to get louder. Including people who are wealthy not wanting their businesses crushed. They are more than happy to flip the switch on.

But your are right. 63% of the people qualify as "broke" because they don't have a $500 emergency fund https://www.forbes.com/sites/maggiem.../#169b78404e0d

Whatever the right answer happens to be, I don't think it should come from someone who has $500 in total reserve. Shame on them for buying that new Dodge Ram.

Amazing people's levels of financial responsibility isn't it?

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by man4857

Amazing people's levels of financial responsibility isn't it?

I get it when you are just starting out. After all, you are starting with nothing. I just cannot grasp the mindset of spending every penny.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by man4857

Sure that's a start. It's a start. To instill more confidence, I would suggest even $3000-4000/mo. A start would be 6 months with an extension by another 6 months. Giving people more money than they need acts as an economic stimulus for when the economy does start opening.

I would refuse to sign up for that plan. "Free money" per month? Then my vote is to let the 0.1%-0.4% die.

[Burning Madolf]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

I get it when you are just starting out. After all, you are starting with nothing. I just cannot grasp the mindset of spending every penny.

The didn't learn it in school so I figure they learn it from the actions of the government.

[man4857]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

I would refuse to sign up for that plan. "Free money" per month? Then my vote is to let the 0.1%-0.4% die.

Sure but that's your philosophical argument here. Not a practical one. I'm talking about practical ones that works for the situation at hand since we have 2 issues that conflicts with one another.

The practical one is to not let those 0.1-0.4% die and just tell everyone to stay home until the dust settles. If you want to cash yourself out feel free and go jump off a cliff right now - it's faster and easier than sending people to the ER. I happen to not want that. People aren't just numbers on a screen.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by man4857

I don't get why this is even an issue or a discussion point. It's a false choice to pit the interest of the economy against health. Life cannot be saved no matter what amount of money you throw at it. The economy, we can always rebuild. We've done that before in our history. We can do it again. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness won't mean much if you're dead.

So Chairman, you're basically saying that the Constitution and the principles that America was founded on mean nothing to you? "Give me liberty or give me death" are very famous & powerful words which have a deep meaning in our history. Perhaps you should study American history and learn why we as a nation became a free Constitutional Republic instead of a dictatorship. If an authoritarian type of socialist regime is what you prefer, then feel free to leave anytime. The majority of us still love our freedoms & economic prosperity.

Originally Posted by man4857

In the meantime while we wait it out, we can float people's bills to keep food on the table and a roof over their head. That's all that's needed. I don't think anyone is arguing we have to wait until we have 0 cases to return to normalcy, but definitely not anytime soon.

The federal budget is already trillions of dollars in debt, and another $2 trillion was recently piled on top of that ... plus another $480 billion on top of that! If you want to "float people's bills", feel free to contribute out of your own pocket, and you can start with your stimulus check courtesy of Uncle Sam.
()

Originally Posted by phlinak

Isn't it funny how every time Republicans want to wage war or give trillion dollar tax cuts to billionaires and millionaires they have zero concerns for budget deficits but when Democrats want to extend economic breaks to the working and middle class, the Republicans whine and cry crocodile tears ad nauseam about the burden on future generations?

Stop falling for the economic okey-doke of the Republicans.

Hey, you're preaching to the choir. I'm not a Republican (nor a Democrat). Both parties are one & the same as far as spending is concerned, and Trump is NO fiscal conservative. It's really a shame when anybody regardless of political affiliation would rather rely on the government for handouts than take responsibility for their own lives. Some of us prefer to make it on our own & take care of our own without Big Brother's influence. This left vs. right nonsense means absolutely nothing in the big picture.

[man4857]

Originally Posted by Burning Madolf

The didn't learn it in school so I figure they learn it from the actions of the government.

To be fair, school doesn't really teach you personal finance. Economics class isn't about personal finance.

[Burning Madolf]

Originally Posted by man4857

Sure that's a start. It's a start. To instill more confidence, I would suggest even $3000-4000/mo. A start would be 6 months with an extension by another 6 months. Giving people more money than they need acts as an economic stimulus for when the economy does start opening.

Well without getting too much into the philosophical argument - UBI as a concept will reduce huge administrative workloads already exists in the current social safety net systems. So it could be made permanent - while removing other programs (SNAP/UI/etc. the means tested programs) and replacing it with a straight check and the dollar amount could be lowered/raised during times of boom and bust. There's a practical benefit for doing this.

For people who gets money they don't need - in terms of income, the IRS could tax it back and vice versa.

Yeah, you've gone on about moronic spending by people, but then you want to give them money to spend, for a year or longer. Solid plan.

It's the fatal flaw of all good intention plans.
But we are going to hear more and more ideas about UBI, Medicaid expansion, SNAPS expansion, Section 8 Voucher expansion and who knows what else.
I retract my $50 trillion debt estimates. $100 trillion seems about right. Oh wait, there's another one: MMT.

[man4857]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

So Chairman, you're basically saying that the Constitution and the principles that America was founded on mean nothing to you? "Give me liberty or give me death" are very famous & powerful words which have a deep meaning in our history. Perhaps you should study American history and learn why we as a nation became a free Constitutional Republic instead of a dictatorship. If an authoritarian type of socialist regime is what you prefer, then feel free to leave anytime. The majority of us still love our freedoms & economic prosperity.



The federal budget is already trillions of dollars in debt, and another $2 trillion was recently piled on top of that ... plus another $480 billion on top of that! If you want to "float people's bills", feel free to contribute out of your own pocket, and you can start with your stimulus check courtesy of Uncle Sam.
()



Hey, you're preaching to the choir. I'm not a Republican (nor a Democrat). Both parties are one & the same as far as spending is concerned, and Trump is NO fiscal conservative. It's really a shame when anybody regardless of political affiliation would rather rely on the government for handouts than take responsibility for their own lives. Some of us prefer to make it on our own & take care of our own without Big Brother's influence. This left vs. right nonsense means absolutely nothing in the big picture.

Lol, so how did you translate my statements into some twisted argument about liberty - socialist regime and now authoritarian government? Did I ever suggest that? You're just a little bit over the top here. I respect the Constitution as much as anyone else. Just because I have a different view of how government should work doesn't make me an authoritarian. Lay off the crazy sauce. I'm just as American as you are. Categorizing people's views automatically as extreme views just because they don't align 100% with yours is not productive and only contributing to the polarization. Not everyone has to agree with you and blasting them this way does nothing.

I'm not going to argue with you over the federal budget and deficit spending. There's an academic reason for deficit spending in times of economic recessions. Now whether you want to take the philosophical view out of that argument or not is up to you. That's been the status quo of fiscal stimulus now since the Depression.

My statements were intended to be philosophically neutral as possible. I was purely looking at a cash flow stand point.