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Well, that all depends on which part of NM and which part of AZ you speak of. Here's some northern NM mountains.
If he’s speaking of Albuquerque and Phoenix I think the Sonoran Desert of Phoenix is much nicer than the high desert of Albuquerque as far as nature. High deserts have benefits but beauty isn’t one of them.
Even in the Phoenix board the Texas lovers have to defend the most over rated state in the country. San Antonio is a **** hole either way.
I just drove the whole length of Texas, puposely driving through the entire hill country. I liked none of it. El Paso probably the least. Looking over to Mexico reminded me of living in China, with its little regard to infrastructure or the environment.
Yup agree with you all. And now Texas is screwed as millions are without power and no idea when they will have power restored. People are storing water in bathtubs and having to stay warm in their cars overnight because of the horrible power infrastructure. Not exactly great for economy or commerce.
So now Arizona / Phoenix has another thing going for it - we won't freeze like Texas and our power grid isn't isolated like Texas and won't crap out for days / weeks, putting lives in danger.
Yup agree with you all. And now Texas is screwed as millions are without power and no idea when they will have power restored. People are storing water in bathtubs and having to stay warm in their cars overnight because of the horrible power infrastructure. Not exactly great for economy or commerce.
So now Arizona / Phoenix has another thing going for it - we won't freeze like Texas and our power grid isn't isolated like Texas and won't crap out for days / weeks, putting lives in danger.
Reason #5498 why I prefer Arizona over Texas.
Agreed 100% that Texas weather sucks all the way around, and obviously they're not fit to handle the extremities based on how awful their power grids are managed, etc. You've made the point seemingly dozens of times how you love Phoenix over anywhere else largely due to the weather. Arizona = good. Texas = bad. We get it.
Now, maybe you can explain that since Texas has proven itself to be a state full of horrible weather, drab scenery, and pure incompetence, why so many major corporations are based there instead of here. The Dallas area is home to 24 Fortune 500 Corporations, and the Houston area has 21. Texas as a state has 95 of these firms, compared to only 5 in the entire state of Arizona. Obviously there are reasons why they prefer to remain in Texas, and why Phoenix seems to be passed over for major business opportunities, despite Arizona being heaven on earth as you often describe.
IMO, Austin is a vibrant town. They have an incredible music scene, the lake and rolling hills are gorgeous, and they have a highly educated population. The Houston suburbs like The Woodlands and Katy are top-notch. I could live in either city. Dallas as a whole is meh (Downtown sucks). To each their own I guess.
TX is over 2X the size of AZ. So even though the vast majority of TX is an armpit, there are some wonderful pockets. Companies are fleeing the Bay area to TX by the hour. And it's been going on for years. AZ is just starting to attract more businesses. They are leaving for lower-cost housing for their employees, dodging crazy politics that involve tons of regulations, and of course, businesses love a lower tax base. It's why TX is doing so well. Additionally like AK and their oil revenue (AK gives their citizens a check for $1600 per year), TX oil allows for their economy to prosper.
People want warmth over the cold. So yes, the weather matters a lot. It's the largest reason why TX, FL, AZ plus other warm states are gaining population. Hot / humidity of not, TX is gaining ground because it is warm. Though the butt ugly parts of the state (which measure in a couple hundred thousand square miles) are desolate. The better-looking areas are more populated.
Agreed 100% that Texas weather sucks all the way around, and obviously they're not fit to handle the extremities based on how awful their power grids are managed, etc. You've made the point seemingly dozens of times how you love Phoenix over anywhere else largely due to the weather. Arizona = good. Texas = bad. We get it.
Now, maybe you can explain that since Texas has proven itself to be a state full of horrible weather, drab scenery, and pure incompetence, why so many major corporations are based there instead of here. The Dallas area is home to 24 Fortune 500 Corporations, and the Houston area has 21. Texas as a state has 95 of these firms, compared to only 5 in the entire state of Arizona. Obviously there are reasons why they prefer to remain in Texas, and why Phoenix seems to be passed over for major business opportunities, despite Arizona being heaven on earth as you often describe.
Simple, lack of regulatory oversight since they have vast amounts of raw land available that is not really environmentally meaningful / useful for other purposes, as well as the money from the days of the oil industry so there is plenty of money available to solicit and invest in.
This is the same reason China and many other corporations are investing in Africa due to the lack of regulatory policies. The difference is in Africa, the local governments / people are exploited while the population suffers, but in Texas the population is starting to become a valuable resource due to the knowledge capital of the pool of employees.
That's all well and good, but I have a career that works in Bay Area (having lived there), and could get paid Bay Area salaries anywhere I want. For me, it is not important to live near corporate headquarters of these companies relocating to Texas. Covid will make that even less important for many other people as well.
I have friends who relocated to Austin to work for Motorola, Schwab, and other companies who are now looking to relocate back to Phoenix / Idaho / Nevada / other cheaper places because they can work remotely. Austin traffic is really awful due to the rapid growth and very little build up of infrastructure to accommodate all of that traffic pre-Covid.
So in summary, just because businesses are choosing to relocate to Texas, does not make it better as a place to live for me, as a WFH worker.
This is the same reason most people left Detroit, after the auto-industry became less competitive / important when manufacturing started going elsewhere. When it was important to be near the factories during that previous time, Detroit was not the best place to live, but it was where you had to be to work in automotive industry.
The same thing will happen to Texas. Corporations will go there because of the availability of cheap land, capital, and availability of workers, but over time that advantage will fade as experienced workers relocate to other more desirable places like Arizona.
Honestly I couldn't care less about all of the companies moving to Texas. Unless you are so desperate to need to work in a cubicle in one of the environments, you'd be far better off living in a place like Arizona / Nevada and earn a similar living while not being in Texas.
Also, having HQs of large companies is less of a meaningful metric these days. Oracle is relocating to Austin, but it's not requiring any of its employees to move there. Its employees can work remotely where-ever they please. I'd rather live in a more diverse economy like Arizona which is not hugely impacted by the loss of a huge corporation and instant loss of thousands of jobs when companies decide grass is greener / cheaper elsewhere.
Ironically, my paycheck has been coming from companies based in Austin / Dallas / Houston for the last few years. None of the corporate people has even dared to suggest I move there to work for them. That would be an instant and hard "NO" and they can take that job and shove it. They're smart enough to know better. What's more important than where HQ is based, is where the revenue base is coming from. In my case, the revenues are coming from the west coast and east coast. It's more important to be closer to the customer base than where accounting / HR happens to be.
Bottom line, if you are in need of being close to HQs of those companies and only can work for those companies, then move to Texas. If you have a longer term vision and can build yourself up as a valuable / skilled resource then you probably can live in better places.
Last edited by AndroidAZ; 02-17-2021 at 10:31 AM..
IMO, Austin is a vibrant town. They have an incredible music scene, the lake and rolling hills are gorgeous, and they have a highly educated population. The Houston suburbs like The Woodlands and Katy are top-notch. I could live in either city. Dallas as a whole is meh (Downtown sucks). To each their own I guess.
TX is over 2X the size of AZ. So even though the vast majority of TX is an armpit, there are some wonderful pockets. Companies are fleeing the Bay area to TX by the hour. And it's been going on for years. AZ is just starting to attract more businesses. They are leaving for lower-cost housing for their employees, dodging crazy politics that involve tons of regulations, and of course, businesses love a lower tax base. It's why TX is doing so well. Additionally like AK and their oil revenue (AK gives their citizens a check for $1600 per year), TX oil allows for their economy to prosper.
People want warmth over the cold. So yes, the weather matters a lot. It's the largest reason why TX, FL, AZ plus other warm states are gaining population. Hot / humidity of not, TX is gaining ground because it is warm. Though the butt ugly parts of the state (which measure in a couple hundred thousand square miles) are desolate. The better-looking areas are more populated.
I honestly think Austin is vastly over-rated.
I've stayed downtown by the convention center for work / play, and I've stayed out in the suburbs to visit friends. Austin seems like an armpit of a town compared to Phoenix. It's industrialized and feels like Grand Ave. in many places. The river is nice though, I'll admit that, having eaten at many of the restaurants off the river.
The construction is not keeping up pace with traffic. Pre-covid I'd have to take an hour to drive 10 miles to get from my hotel to work....reminded me of Bay Area where I'd spend 2 hours to go 25 miles.
The downtown music vibe / bars is cool...but it gets old fast, especially for families. If I never have to go back to Austin again, I'd be perfectly fine.
Simple, lack of regulatory oversight since they have vast amounts of raw land available that is not really environmentally meaningful / useful for other purposes, as well as the money from the days of the oil industry so there is plenty of money available to solicit and invest in.
This is the same reason China and many other corporations are investing in Africa due to the lack of regulatory policies. The difference is in Africa, the local governments / people are exploited while the population suffers, but in Texas the population is starting to become a valuable resource due to the knowledge capital of the pool of employees.
That's all well and good, but I have a career that works in Bay Area (having lived there), and could get paid Bay Area salaries anywhere I want. For me, it is not important to live near corporate headquarters of these companies relocating to Texas. Covid will make that even less important for many other people as well.
I have friends who relocated to Austin to work for Motorola, Schwab, and other companies who are now looking to relocate back to Phoenix / Idaho / Nevada / other cheaper places because they can work remotely. Austin traffic is really awful due to the rapid growth and very little build up of infrastructure to accommodate all of that traffic pre-Covid.
So in summary, just because businesses are choosing to relocate to Texas, does not make it better as a place to live for me, as a WFH worker.
This is the same reason most people left Detroit, after the auto-industry became less competitive / important when manufacturing started going elsewhere. When it was important to be near the factories during that previous time, Detroit was not the best place to live, but it was where you had to be to work in automotive industry.
The same thing will happen to Texas. Corporations will go there because of the availability of cheap land, capital, and availability of workers, but over time that advantage will fade as experienced workers relocate to other more desirable places like Arizona.
Honestly I couldn't care less about all of the companies moving to Texas. Unless you are so desperate to need to work in a cubicle in one of the environments, you'd be far better off living in a place like Arizona / Nevada and earn a similar living while not being in Texas.
Also, having HQs of large companies is less of a meaningful metric these days. Oracle is relocating to Austin, but it's not requiring any of its employees to move there. Its employees can work remotely where-ever they please. I'd rather live in a more diverse economy like Arizona which is not hugely impacted by the loss of a huge corporation and instant loss of thousands of jobs when companies decide grass is greener / cheaper elsewhere.
Ironically, my paycheck has been coming from companies based in Austin / Dallas / Houston for the last few years. None of the corporate people has even dared to suggest I move there to work for them. That would be an instant and hard "NO" and they can take that job and shove it. They're smart enough to know better. What's more important than where HQ is based, is where the revenue base is coming from. In my case, the revenues are coming from the west coast and east coast. It's more important to be closer to the customer based than where accounting / HR happens to be.
Bottom line, if you are in need of being close to HQs of those companies and only can work for those companies, then move to Texas. If you have a longer term vision and can build yourself up as a valuable / skilled resource then you probably can live in better places.
All well & good, but you left out a few points. Arizona has long had a reputation of being desirable mostly for the weather & scenery, but lacking in important factors like education and skilled talent. Some people say that our unwillingness to pay higher taxes for education contributes to this, but I disagree. A lot of it is the kind of transplants we attract.
Let's face it: those who move here for sunny weather, recreation, etc. are often the slower moving types with a lack of motivation. I'm certainly not the only one who has noticed this. Another poster in this thread also mentioned in his experience that Texans are more driven to succeed compared to the ones from CA or AZ who were more interested in knocking off early for recreational purposes. That makes a noticeable difference in the kinds of talent a place attracts. In the end, what matters is results and profits. That's what companies are primarily looking for ... not how beautiful the weather is, or how many mountains there are to view.
Also, not everybody can (or cares to) work remotely. I have been working from home since last spring, and it has both positives & negatives. I like the fact that my commute & savings on gas have been significantly reduced, especially since I hate dealing with rush hour traffic. On the other hand, I feel a strong disconnect from my base. You may see it differently, but interacting with people in person is important to many of us. Virtual communication still has too many glitches, and in many ways it's ANTIsocial. It's not just the ones in my age group who believe this either. I know a manager in her 30s at my firm who absolutely hates working from home and despises electronic communication. It's fine for some, but not for everybody.
The way I see it, since Phoenix is up there in population with the other major cities like Philadelphia and even Houston, we should be attracting the talent and the business that those cities are. Despite our weather being so great as you claim, businesses and motivated people are still choosing places like Texas over us. As I said before, this is changing for the better, and Phoenix's economy has become more diverse in recent years, but it still has a long way to go to make up for the many years we've been plodding along & behaving like a smallish city, mainly interested in seasonal tourism, retirees, and outdoor recreation. You think having corporate HQs is unimportant, but perhaps it's unimportant to you personally. Many others in the business world respectfully disagree.
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