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All well & good, but you left out a few points. Arizona has long had a reputation of being desirable mostly for the weather & scenery, but lacking in important factors like education and skilled talent. Some people say that our unwillingness to pay higher taxes for education contributes to this, but I disagree. A lot of it is the kind of transplants we attract.
Let's face it: those who move here for sunny weather, recreation, etc. are often the slower moving types with a lack of motivation. I'm certainly not the only one who has noticed this. Another poster in this thread also mentioned in his experience that Texans are more driven to succeed compared to the ones from CA or AZ who were more interested in knocking off early for recreational purposes. That makes a noticeable difference in the kinds of talent a place attracts. In the end, what matters is results and profits. That's what companies are primarily looking for ... not how beautiful the weather is, or how many mountains there are to view.
Also, not everybody can (or cares to) work remotely. I have been working from home since last spring, and it has both positives & negatives. I like the fact that my commute & savings on gas have been significantly reduced, especially since I hate dealing with rush hour traffic. On the other hand, I feel a strong disconnect from my base. You may see it differently, but interacting with people in person is important to many of us. Virtual communication still has too many glitches, and in many ways it's ANTIsocial. It's not just the ones in my age group who believe this either. I know a manager in her 30s at my firm who absolutely hates working from home and despises electronic communication. It's fine for some, but not for everybody.
The way I see it, since Phoenix is up there in population with the other major cities like Philadelphia and even Houston, we should be attracting the talent and the business that those cities are. Despite our weather being so great as you claim, businesses and motivated people are still choosing places like Texas over us. As I said before, this is changing for the better, and Phoenix's economy has become more diverse in recent years, but it still has a long way to go to make up for the many years we've been plodding along & behaving like a smallish city, mainly interested in seasonal tourism, retirees, and outdoor recreation. You think having corporate HQs is unimportant, but perhaps it's unimportant to you personally. Many others in the business world respectfully disagree.
I don't think Philly is a fair comparison. The problem with looking at City proper population is that Phoenix is enormous in land area, whereas more traditional cities would have had that area under the jurisdiction of suburban municipalities (like Boston and Philly metros do). It's more accurate to look at Phoenix as a top 10-15 metropolitan area. It competes reasonably with that group, which includes Boston, San Francisco (anamoly), Riverside/San Bernardino, Detroit, and Seattle. I put it in that group because Atlanta (the 9th larges metro) is 1million people larger than Phoenix. I'd put us over Riverside and Detroit. We don't have the tech that Seattle and San Fran do.
All well & good, but you left out a few points. Arizona has long had a reputation of being desirable mostly for the weather & scenery, but lacking in important factors like education and skilled talent. Some people say that our unwillingness to pay higher taxes for education contributes to this, but I disagree. A lot of it is the kind of transplants we attract.
Let's face it: those who move here for sunny weather, recreation, etc. are often the slower moving types with a lack of motivation. I'm certainly not the only one who has noticed this. Another poster in this thread also mentioned in his experience that Texans are move driven to succeed compared to the ones from CA or AZ who were more interested in knocking off early for recreational purposes. That makes a noticeable difference in the kinds of talent a place attracts. In the end, what matters is results and profits. That's what companies are primarily looking for ... not how beautiful the weather is, or how many mountains there are to view.
Also, not everybody can (or cares to) work remotely. I have been working from home since last spring, and it has both positives & negatives. I like the fact that my commute & savings on gas have been significantly reduced, especially since I hate dealing with rush hour traffic. On the other hand, I feel a strong disconnect from my base. You may see it differently, but interacting with people in person is important to many of us. Virtual communication still has too many glitches, and in many ways it's ANTIsocial. It's not just the ones in my age group who believe this either. I know a manager in her 30s at my firm who absolutely hates working from home and despises electronic communication. It's fine for some, but not for everybody.
The way I see it, since Phoenix is up there in population with the other major cities like Philadelphia and even Houston, we should be attracting the talent and the business that those cities are. Despite our weather being so great as you claim, businesses and motivated people are still choosing places like Texas over us. As I said before, this is changing for the better, and Phoenix's economy has become more diverse in recent years, but it still has a long way to go for the many years we've been plodding along & behaving like a smallish city, mainly interested in seasonal tourism, retirees, and outdoor recreation. You think having corporate HQs is unimportant, but perhaps it's unimportant to you personally. Many others in the business world respectfully disagree.
Interacting with people is important, but I'd much rather interact with my friends/family and get social feedback that way, than be forced to sit in soul-less cubicles trying to win friends over because we happened to work in the same physical location. Reminds me of high school, where popularity in a fish bowl mattered more than other meaningful things such as academic accomplishment and individual happiness.
I think WFH is exposing people to what's really important in life. There will be some individuals who will crave to be in a work-social environment where they get all or most of their social validation from the cube farm, but I'd bet that is going to get far less important over time.
I have a friend who has worked from a cubicle all his life, and always says he couldn't see himself working at home. Well, it's been about a year now of working from home, and he will never go back. It was hard at first because he is single, and doesn't have as large of a circle of friends outside of work. But over time he's built that circle of friends up, and realize how superficial his work relationships were. It takes time for that mind shift to happen...but it will happen. Sure, some stubborn mule will always live and die at the office, because that is how their social reality is constructed and they can't fathom not being in that environment. Those are the dinosaurs who will get left behind and outdated over time.
The bit about people being more motivated in TX than AZ is a bit wonky to me. I have some friends who will outwork anyone in the Bay Area or in Texas, and happily do so from the comfort of their homes in AZ. I don't know how one can broadly say people in TX are more motivated than AZ, as if that's even a thing, LOL.
My bet is on Arizona become more diverse and economically important over time, and happiness from employees who live here to outpace Texas over time.
I've seen it happen time and again over the decades I've worked nationally and globally, in corporations and tech, and have been correct in my evaluation thus far. I bet we'll look back in 20 years and see how prescient I was, again.
Last edited by AndroidAZ; 02-17-2021 at 11:47 AM..
Not sure how this thread turned into a thread on Texas weather.
Back on topic of the Phoenix housing market. The market is strong as may people can now permanently work from home with their out of state salaries. I live in California (and AZ) and many members of my team now reside in Arizona and have kept their CA salaries. Housing is affordable, schools are better, and their only requirement is to visit the office a few days a month.
This will definitely impact locals who do not have strong skills or know a trade as owning a home becomes much more costly. This is unfortunate for locals, but benefits the Phoenix metro by diversifying the economy.
Local real estate prices are no longer tied to local wages. This can be seen in Los Angeles, New York, and Miami. Sky-high real-estate is often driven by international wealth and not local wages.
Not sure how this thread turned into a thread on Texas weather.
Back on topic of the Phoenix housing market. The market is strong as may people can now permanently work from home with their out of state salaries. I live in California (and AZ) and many members of my team now reside in Arizona and have kept their CA salaries. Housing is affordable, schools are better, and their only requirement is to visit the office a few days a month.
This will definitely impact locals who do not have strong skills or know a trade as owning a home becomes much more costly.
Local real estate prices are no longer tied to local wages. This can be seen in Los Angeles, New York, and Miami. Sky-high real-estate is often driven by international money.
It is fascinating because people are always comparing Texas to AZ. The two are not comparable, imho...especially in light of current weather events that show the major weakness of TX.
What a beautiful day today in Phoenix. Think I'll go for an hour walk outside and enjoy the scenery.
A lot of the locals in Phoenix are being left behind for sure. It is a mix of tunnel vision, lack of acceptance of the changing environment, and simple stubbornness to stick to what they've always "felt" vs what is really happening here in AZ.
If one adapts to change, one can thrive in the change. It still makes me sad that there were so many people posting about real estate crashing here in Phoenix / AZ the last few years. Simply ignorant of the trends and unprepared for what happened in reality.
They've been left holding the bag while others have taken advantage of the huge increase in prices / value here. Some of them are going to keep arguing Texas is better because of X, Y, Z...so be it. Better for them to move to Texas anyway, IMO.
Last edited by AndroidAZ; 02-17-2021 at 11:22 AM..
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,698,478 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64
I don't think Philly is a fair comparison. The problem with looking at City proper population is that Phoenix is enormous in land area, whereas more traditional cities would have had that area under the jurisdiction of suburban municipalities (like Boston and Philly metros do). It's more accurate to look at Phoenix as a top 10-15 metropolitan area. It competes reasonably with that group, which includes Boston, San Francisco (anamoly), Riverside/San Bernardino, Detroit, and Seattle. I put it in that group because Atlanta (the 9th larges metro) is 1million people larger than Phoenix. I'd put us over Riverside and Detroit. We don't have the tech that Seattle and San Fran do.
You can't even count Riverside as a separate metro, it's part of Greater Los Angeles
This will definitely impact locals who do not have strong skills or know a trade as owning a home becomes much more costly. This is unfortunate for locals, but benefits the Phoenix metro by diversifying the economy.
Yep. It will "pseudo-gentrify" (push out the less skilled). Less jacked-up 4x4's, fewer tattoos and nose rings etc.
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,698,478 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by stub303
Not sure how this thread turned into a thread on Texas weather.
Back on topic of the Phoenix housing market. The market is strong as may people can now permanently work from home with their out of state salaries. I live in California (and AZ) and many members of my team now reside in Arizona and have kept their CA salaries. Housing is affordable, schools are better, and their only requirement is to visit the office a few days a month.
This will definitely impact locals who do not have strong skills or know a trade as owning a home becomes much more costly. This is unfortunate for locals, but benefits the Phoenix metro by diversifying the economy.
Local real estate prices are no longer tied to local wages. This can be seen in Los Angeles, New York, and Miami. Sky-high real-estate is often driven by international wealth and not local wages.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndroidAZ
It is fascinating because people are always comparing Texas to AZ. The two are not comparable, imho...especially in light of current weather events that show the major weakness of TX.
What a beautiful day today in Phoenix. Think I'll go for an hour walk outside and enjoy the scenery.
A lot of the locals in Phoenix are being left behind for sure. It is a mix of tunnel vision, lack of acceptance of the changing environment, and simple stubbornness to stick to what they've always "felt" vs what is really happening here in AZ.
If one adapts to change, one can thrive in the change. It still makes me sad that there were so many people posting about real estate crashing here in Phoenix / AZ the last few years. Simply ignorant of the trends and unprepared for what happened in reality.
They've been left holding the bag while others have taken advantage of the huge increase in prices / value here.
Is this the two of you saying "learn to code" in so many words? :/
It is fascinating because people are always comparing Texas to AZ. The two are not comparable, imho...especially in light of current weather events that show the major weakness of TX.
If we get a few years of 60+ days, 115-degree temps, I expect people to turn in the other direction from PHX. My point being, a record snowstorm isn't going to push people away from TX. Nor will one record-breaking PHX summer.
Is this the two of you saying "learn to code" in so many words? :/
LOL I do zero coding. Coding is easily outsourced to India / eastern Europe for cheaper. I would advise on coding as a hobby, but not as a serious career. It is a great way to learn tech for sure.
There are far better career paths to do than that. Finance, sales, media, medical, and many more careers / industries can really scale here in Arizona and further increase the diversity and importance of this economy.
If we get a few years of 60+ days, 115-degree days, I expect people to turn in the other direction. My point being, a record snowstorm isn't going to push people away from TX. Nor will one record-breaking PHX summer.
True, but a few 115 degree days isn't causing millions of Arizonans to lose power with no status on when we can get power back on at home or work for days or weeks on end, because of the crappy infrastructure design.
Now on top of hurricanes, tornadoes, flooding, we'll have to add severe freezing and long term of loss of power to the list of risks for Texas.
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