Are schools in the Phoenix metro really that bad? (Chandler: private school, universities)

[DetroitN8V]

Originally Posted by Sno0909

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I never suggested that you would change your views. Someone afraid of public schools, including arguably the most conservative district in the area(!), is likely in way too deep to be open to open to challenge. It's a shame because developing social skills is far more important than sheltering children from imaginary threats of "liberal indoctrination", or whatever the fear of the week may be. I have yet to meet a normal, well-rounded person that came from homeschooling. I'm sure it's mostly because they come from parents that are a bit out there, to say the least.

[asufan]

As others have said, move to an area with money. We've been happy with Chandler schools, my kids are taught above grade level and the older one has been successful transitioning into Junior High with all honors courses while having a full plate of sports extracurriculars. The local high school is Hamilton and is very highly rated and they're building the AZ College Prep campus just down the road that will give us an additional option. The lower income areas may have struggling schools but I've been happy.

[Ex New Yorker]

Originally Posted by Sno0909

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You're 100% correct.

Myself, I just ignore these miserable fools altogether. Trying to argue with them is giving them just what they want. Their mission in life is to make everyone just as miserable as they are.

[Sno0909]

Originally Posted by DetroitN8V

I never suggested that you would change your views. Someone afraid of public schools, including arguably the most conservative district in the area(!), is likely in way too deep to be open to open to challenge. It's a shame because developing social skills is far more important than sheltering children from imaginary threats of "liberal indoctrination", or whatever the fear of the week may be. I have yet to meet a normal, well-rounded person that came from homeschooling. I'm sure it's mostly because they come from parents that are a bit out there, to say the least.

When did I say I was afraid? I just choose not to have my 1st grader associate with that stuff. I know that is your lifestyle, so you are more easily offended on this issue. I get it.

And as far as socialization, my child plays hockey. On a team with 10 other public school kids. He socializes with them just fine. He also has neighborhood friends that he plays with all the time.

I don't understand why you keep inserting yourself into topics of children. It's a little concerning since you don't have any.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by john3232

Unfortunately, if education isn't valued in the home there is little a teacher or school can. On the other hand teaching in a suburban school with helicopter parents securitizing your every move is no fun either.

So true ^^! The problem is, >>50% of kids in school coast. I coasted. So I too wasted funds. But for those who care (a third?), I'm all about spending the money. Because the top 20% of the people drive this countries economy (the universally true 80-20 rule). And THANKFULLY, we are attracting the best in the brightest from other countries too. For those who don't appreciate the top foreigners wanting to be here. There is a saying: the A's hire A's, and the B's hire C's. B players are deathly afraid of hiring someone better than them. And we all know why.

Anyways, trying to measure improvements are tough because the top spending districts often are the problem ones. So trying to data-mine the value-add is nearly impossible. Look at it this way: it seems in every other topic if you spend more, you either get better quality or better service. If you say education is immune to be "better" when you spend more, I say you are crazy.

Re: helicopter parents. There is a balance that some people cross. We gave them a lot of leeway to think and do for themselves. I didn't come to their rescue when they got into spats or if they got picked on. They had to work it out for themselves after we talked about ways to handle it. Though I admit I did encourage my son to fight a couple of times. That fixed a couple of problems.

[DetroitN8V]

Originally Posted by Sno0909

When did I say I was afraid? I just choose not to have my 1st grader associate with that stuff. I know that is your lifestyle, so you are more easily offended on this issue. I get it.

And as far as socialization, my child plays hockey. On a team with 10 other public school kids. He socializes with them just fine. He also has neighborhood friends that he plays with all the time.

I don't understand why you keep inserting yourself into topics of children. It's a little concerning since you don't have any.

You're afraid of what the Gilbert Public Schools may teach your children that you might disapprove of. That's fear. It's baseless fear to boot as teaching children about a topic isn't going to change who they are. Again, they'll learn about the world sooner or later. I can't imagine being sheltered as a child only to grow up to realize the world is much larger than it was presented to me as. Hell, just missing out on recess and group learning and all the fun and mind-expanding stuff that was elementary and middle school would be brutal. I would harbor deep resentment toward my parents. Maybe your kids will grow up to thank you for keeping them safe from evil story telling drag queens, but I highly doubt it. At best, they'll laugh at the absurdity.

[Ex New Yorker]

Originally Posted by ajonesaz

Most of those school rankings are based on state funding. Arizona is no longer 48 as they have made a lot of headway to increase funding. Many local districts, like mine in Gilbert have municipal property tax and it is much better funded.

Another metric is high school graduation rate. What you won't find anywhere is any state with a lot of Native reservations have horrible dropout rates, same with primarily first generation Hispanic schools. Drop out rates on the reservation are has high as 40%.

Look at test scores, not 'wallet hub' rankings.

Where I used to live in New York the average per pupil spending was around $23,000 a year. That was 11 years ago it's now around $30,000. Yet it is one of the worst school districts in the county and probably the entire state. It took us over 3 years to sell our house because of that.

But it was the only place in the county where we could afford to buy a house and it was close enough to our family and jobs. Our neighborhood wasn't too bad when we first bought but after about 20 years it started going downhill as well as the takers now vastly outnumber the makers. Somebody's gotta' pay for it and that burden falls on those unfortunate souls that for some reason or the other are stuck there.

Sure that in spite of having a lousy school system some students successfully graduated and went on to live productive lives. The district's minority population was around 90% with 60% being economically depressed. Most of those economically depressed came from broken non English speaking single parent homes. The illegal invaders made up a significant portion of them. As they are welcomed with open arms in New York State.

[Sno0909]

Originally Posted by DetroitN8V

You're afraid of what the Gilbert Public Schools may teach your children that you might disapprove of. That's fear. It's baseless fear to boot as teaching children about a topic isn't going to change who they are. Again, they'll learn about the world sooner or later. I can't imagine being sheltered as a child only to grow up to realize the world is much larger than it was presented to me as. Hell, just missing out on recess and group learning and all the fun and mind-expanding stuff that was elementary and middle school would be brutal. I would harbor deep resentment toward my parents. Maybe your kids will grow up to thank you for keeping them safe from evil story telling drag queens, but I highly doubt it. At best, they'll laugh at the absurdity.

Yes, and look how lovely you've grown up to be. So full of joy and very accepting of other viewpoints. Model citizen.

[Sno0909]

Originally Posted by asufan

As others have said, move to an area with money. We've been happy with Chandler schools, my kids are taught above grade level and the older one has been successful transitioning into Junior High with all honors courses while having a full plate of sports extracurriculars. The local high school is Hamilton and is very highly rated and they're building the AZ College Prep campus just down the road that will give us an additional option. The lower income areas may have struggling schools but I've been happy.

My youngest sister went to Hamilton. She moved to St Pete, FL her junior year. She was about a year behind the other students. They almost had to hold her back (and she had a 4.0 before moving).

Same with my wife. She taught HS in Michigan. When she moved here and started teaching, the 10th graders in AZ were learning what she taught the 9th graders in MI.

I'm not singling out Hamilton - just saying that schooling in AZ tends to be a little behind a lot of other states.

[DetroitN8V]

Originally Posted by Sno0909

Yes, and look how lovely you've grown up to be. So full of joy and very accepting of other viewpoints. Model citizen.

I don't run and hide from others' viewpoints. If they're laughable and based on unfounded paranoia, like Phoenix metro public schools "indoctrinating" children, I'll challenge them, sure.

I give our educators all the credit in the world. They have incredibly difficult, yet immensely important jobs, and to suggest that they are in someway brainwashing children is absolutely absurd and no one needs to accept that as a differing "viewpoint".