Are schools in the Phoenix metro really that bad? (Page: best neighborhoods, sales)

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

I'd definitely be on board with that idea ... however, in all honesty, it stands about as much of a chance as my wish of full privatization. As long as education and many other institutions are run by the government & funded by taxpayers, there will be more takers than contributors, and more slackers than those who excel. You admitted that greater than 50% of kids in school coast through, which is proof enough for me. As far as dodging school taxes, the only way for that to happen would be for me to move to an age restricted community like Sun City. I have seriously considered it for when I retire.

Anytime we spend someone else’s money, there is plenty of waste and people should be suspicious. Private funding certainly doesn’t get a free pass. Whether it is private medical hospitals (look at private equity owned hospitals), or even some private funded (pay-for-view) “colleges” like University of Phoenix.

It sure would be nice if there was an easy way to manage a waste-free and equitable solution. No such thing. As I mentioned, If you spend someone else’s money, expect waste and a lot of it.

[Sno0909]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

All to often, while a Libertarian wants as little government as possible, they attempt to stuff it down people’s throat. Because in their mind, there is only ONE way of looking at it. Trade offs be damned! i.e., strict obedience.

I think that can be said for any political ideology.

[MaggieMae737]

I live in Litchfield Park and have three teachers and one school administrator as neighbors as we all live within walking distance to Millennium HS and the middle and grade schools. I have two friends, one in Gilbert and the other in Glendale who have left the profession due to the poor wage scale and increasing demands. We did not have school age children but we bought our house in LP partly due to, at the time, the good school system. Millennium HS has dropped in it's standings from a 9/10 to a 5/10 in the last 12 years we have lived here. The fourth grade teacher has also admitted that the change in demographics has altered their classrooms which are FULL. She will have 30 children. HS teachers can have upwards of 34 students. The number of Charter schools has mushroomed and many of my friends send their children to those. My sis lives northwest of Chicago and she is looking to move as she is close to retiring. I understand your taxes are astronomical and your state is well, in a state. Good luck to both of you, and I hope you find the best place to land possible.

[AZgarden]

Haven't read the whole thread but I need to throw this in. My daughter in law is a teacher in NW suburbs of Chicago, loves her job, has a Masters plus 30 and makes nearly 100k after 20 plus years. Yes, of course their property taxes are around 15k per year. She has been there a long time; they just bought a new home $750k and are never leaving. In AZ, teachers have been fighting for more salary for years. Consequently, many teachers are leaving this state, hoping for a better wage somewhere else. Will they ever get what they deserve here? I doubt it.

For your fiance's sake, just think about it.

[john3232]

Originally Posted by AZgarden

Haven't read the whole thread but I need to throw this in. My daughter in law is a teacher in NW suburbs of Chicago, loves her job, has a Masters plus 30 and makes nearly 100k after 20 plus years. Yes, of course their property taxes are around 15k per year. She has been there a long time; they just bought a new home $750k and are never leaving. In AZ, teachers have been fighting for more salary for years. Consequently, many teachers are leaving this state, hoping for a better wage somewhere else. Will they ever get what they deserve here? I doubt it.

For your fiance's sake, just think about it.

Daughter in law earns 100k. House is 750k and property tax 15k

A Gilbert teacher with similar experience and MA earns between 67k-75k Gilbert house is 450k and property tax roughly $2750.

So, knock off 12k for the difference in property tax the 100k and it's now 88k. Then there is the house.

I'm sure your daughter in law's home is very nice but 450k gets you a very nice home in Gilbert too. And it cost 300k less.

My niece is in Chicago and I've been telling her for the last two years to get over here.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by john3232

Daughter in law earns 100k. House is 750k and property tax 15k

A Gilbert teacher with similar experience and MA earns between 67k-75k Gilbert house is 450k and property tax roughly $2750.

So, knock off 12k for the difference in property tax the 100k and it's now 88k. Then there is the house.

I'm sure your daughter in law's home is very nice but 450k gets you a very nice home in Gilbert too. And it cost 300k less.

My niece is in Chicago and I've been telling her for the last two years to get over here.

The math is more complicated. For starters, that $12k difference in property tax is an after tax amount. So in actuality, the wage difference is a smaller. Next, IL state taxes are a bit higher. Next, if the identical person borrowed money, that higher interest amount is deductible.

Still, we don’t know where the IL person is buying. It could be a nicer area or larger house than the average home in Gilbert. We don’t know.

But the massive difference is the probable pension. Why do you think those property taxes are so large to begin with?? Retire teachers in Chicago can have a pension of over $73k a year. That is staggering. Unfounded/lope sided pensions in IL and other states are a massive problem. Read https://www.illinoispolicy.org/11-th...cher-pensions/ .

So the $100K per year teacher better darn well think long and hard about waking away from an OVER generous pension.

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

The math is more complicated. For starters, that $12k difference in property tax is an after tax amount. So in actuality, the wage difference is a smaller. Next, IL state taxes are a bit higher. Next, if the identical person borrowed money, that higher interest amount is deductible.

Still, we don’t know where the IL person is buying. It could be a nicer area or larger house than the average home in Gilbert. We don’t know.

But the massive difference is the probable pension. Why do you think those property taxes are so large to begin with?? Retire teachers in Chicago can have a pension of over $73k a year. That is staggering. Unfounded/lope sided pensions in IL and other states are a massive problem. Read https://www.illinoispolicy.org/11-th...cher-pensions/ .

So the $100K per year teacher better darn well think long and hard about waking away from an OVER generous pension.

Those teachers earned that pension, it's not a problem. It's only a problem to people that think pensions shouldn't exist

[john3232]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

The math is more complicated. For starters, that $12k difference in property tax is an after tax amount. So in actuality, the wage difference is a smaller. Next, IL state taxes are a bit higher. Next, if the identical person borrowed money, that higher interest amount is deductible.

Still, we don’t know where the IL person is buying. It could be a nicer area or larger house than the average home in Gilbert. We don’t know.

But the massive difference is the probable pension. Why do you think those property taxes are so large to begin with?? Retire teachers in Chicago can have a pension of over $73k a year. That is staggering. Unfounded/lope sided pensions in IL and other states are a massive problem. Read https://www.illinoispolicy.org/11-th...cher-pensions/ .

So the $100K per year teacher better darn well think long and hard about waking away from an OVER generous pension.

Yes, the retirement package a Chicago teacher eps. those hired before 2011 is fantastic.

Like most public workers in Illinois, particularly Tier 1 employees hired before 2011, Chicago teachers receive generous pension benefits that are heavily subsidized by taxpayers. Chicago Public Schools teachers can retire as young as 55, receive up to 75% of their final average salary in pension benefits and receive 3% compounded annual post-retirement increases regardless of inflation.
https://www.illinoispolicy.org/chica...to-retirement/

However, it was recommend a teacher considering leaving PHX area given the low salary:

In AZ, teachers have been fighting for more salary for years. Consequently, many teachers are leaving this state, hoping for a better wage somewhere else. Will they ever get what they deserve here? I doubt it. For your fiance's sake, just think about it.

Yet leave and go teach where? The teaching salary isn't too bad in Gilbert when you consider the time off and cost of living. And I suspect a science or math teacher in the Gilbert school district is just as good as what you'll find in a Chicago suburban public school classroom.

Now, I certainly don't begrudge anyone for getting the best deal they can... but not at my expense as a tax payer.
https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/researc...ging-residents

But hey, if you are a can get such an employment package go for it.

[john3232]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

Those teachers earned that pension, it's not a problem. It's only a problem to people that think pensions shouldn't exist

I have no problem with private pensions but public... that's another story. The deal Gray Davis gave a number of a number of public unions back in 1999 was a disaster for the taxpayer.
https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-...is-davis-deal/

Now, my understanding is Cal and I believe Illinois as well are not allowed to default on their pension obligations. They must be paid in full. However, I suspect at some point a lawsuit will end up before the USSC regarding pensions and bankruptcy.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ikebran...te-bankruptcy/

And if the USSC rules (and I believe they will...) that cities/states can declare bankruptcy. Can get out from under costly pension plans. Expect the teachers union for example to renegotiate their deal.

[john3232]

Prelude to a State Pension Bailout
https://www.wsj.com/articles/prelude...ut-11614547953