Are schools in the Phoenix metro really that bad? (Scottsdale: transplants, house)

[Itspatrick88]

Hello,
So I am trying to get my fiancé to the Phoenix area. We have visited twice during this pandemic, and fell in love with the area. We currently live in the far western suburbs of Chicago. We love how many transplants are in the desert. Makes it seem like a far suburb. Anyway, only thing holding her back is how low Arizona ranks in education. She is a teacher, so I understand her career would be at stake. We don’t have kids yet, but she would be worried about their education as well. Does anyone have any advice? Are there any good schools, where she could make good money? Any good schools to send our future kids? My only other option looks like moving to Utah, but I would rather live in Phoenix.

[Bondurant]

Millions of people live in the valley. Schools here turn out plenty of fine productive members of society. Are suburban Chicago high schools a paragon of education excellence? I graduated from a suburban Chicago high school and it was a terrible experience.

[grmi66]

You really need to do your homework. If you simply buy a house and plunk your child into the closest neighborhood school, it's a good chance that you'll regret it.

Our first house was in an area of older blue collar and lower middle class starter homes near 35th Avenue and Peoria. But the local school district's traditional school was within walking distance of our house. In response to the best and brightest students in the district leaving for private schools or charter schools, many school districts create a "charter-like" traditional program. In our case anyone in the Washington school district could attend the traditional school, but if they couldn't keep up with the academics or were a behavioral issue, then they were booted out and sent to their local neighborhood school. Our kids got a stellar education that prepped them well for high school and college. Both of my children ended up graduating top of their class at a Basis Charter school, both got full ride academic scholarships to an Arizona college and one of them just won a coveted slot as an Officer's candidate for one of the military branches (about as hard as getting into an Ivy League for grad school).

If you pick the right school there is no reason to fret about the education your children receive.

[Ponderosa]

Schools here are just like everywhere: there is a very strong correlation between the educational attainment and wealth of the community they serve and the quality of the school. Rule of thumb, if you want good schools pick a good ($$) neighborhood of professional people. If you can't afford or don't want that, then look to the charter schools realizing that charters are both among the best and the worst in the state.

[grmi66]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Schools here are just like everywhere: there is a very strong correlation between the educational attainment and wealth of the community they serve and the quality of the school. Rule of thumb, if you want good schools pick a good ($$) neighborhood of professional people. If you can't afford or don't want that, then look to the charter schools realizing that charters are both among the best and the worst in the state.

While I agree in principle, there are certain pockets of Phoenix where this doesn't work. Especially the older, established neighborhoods in central and north central Phoenix. If I just plunked down $750,000 to live near 7th Avenue and Northern there is no way I'm sending my children to the neighborhood schools.

For the OP, just be aware that within the same zip code, some parts of Phoenix can have homes pushing a million bucks that sit within a few blocks of run down multi-tenant dwellings. The children living in the multi-tenant dwellings will vastly outnumber the children from the nice parts of the zip code. Speaking from personal experience.

How this plays out in the suburbs, I wouldn't have a clue. I'm extremely familiar with the central core of Phoenix from downtown to about Bell Road.

[KurtAZ]

I think we have all missed the most important point in the OPs post...their fiancé is a teacher. Average teacher salary in AZ is about $58k (salary .com ) So depending what she is used to making in Chicago...this may be a cut in pay. Now assuming that the latest stats are still correct, is costs about 10% less to live in Phoenix Metro than Chicago.

Also one of the main reasons for low marks of AZ schools is the low student funding ratio in public schools. grimi66 made a good point about the charter schools in the area, BASIS has some of the top schools in the country (top 10 nationally) if you want to go that route. There is also Great Hearts and other charters as well as Private School options.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

To the Op. AZ has had bad school ratings for years. MUCH of the actual poor rankings that people read about has to do with demographics coupled with per student (low) spending. If anyone really wants to learn about the reality of K-12 ranking, study this article. https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis...ation-rankings

The link racks and stacks the quality of education once you normalize the demographic distribution and the weighted averages. AZ comes closer to the middle of the pack when you do that (again, I strongly encourage you to read the whole, well-written article). I honed in on the following:

"Another limitation to our study, common to virtually all state education rankings, is that we treat the result of education as a one-dimensional variable. Of course, educational results are multifaceted and more complex than a single measure could capture. A standardized test may not pick up potentially important qualities such as creativity, critical thinking, or grit. Part of the problem is that there is no accepted measurement of those attributes. "


So for educated and passionate parents, high standardized test scores are a given. As Ponderosa said, follow the money! But grit, creativity, and critical thinking skills are not necessarily based on going to school in a more educated area. That costs money (better teachers, better programs, "free" HS college, slightly lower class size, etc).

Personally, I would have been skeptical of sending my kids to an AZ K-12 public school. Well, not the BASIS in Scottsdale because my kids could have handled the (sweatshop) rigor.

The article I linked didn't mention is that the highest per-pupil spending is often located in the most troubled districts. You could spend $100K a student and still get lousy results. The bottom line is picking a school based on statistics and traditional rankings are confusing. Of course "follow the money" doesn't help the kids whose parents don't have the $$. I digress...

re: your wife and teaching. Recently, AZ teachers have gotten several raises.

[Itspatrick88]

Here is another question. Maybe I should have asked it first, and I’m sorry if it is a dumb question. Why are Arizona schools ranked so low? I have read it’s like 48 out of 50.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by Itspatrick88

Here is another question. Maybe I should have asked it first, and I’m sorry if it is a dumb question. Why are Arizona schools ranked so low? I have read it’s like 48 out of 50.

I guess you didn't read the link I gave you.

[Itspatrick88]

She actually makes less than average at this time, but she is due for a pay raise this fall, due to getting her masters degree and for how many years she has been teaching.

Originally Posted by KurtAZ

I think we have all missed the most important point in the OPs post...their fiancé is a teacher. Average teacher salary in AZ is about $58k (salary .com ) So depending what she is used to making in Chicago...this may be a cut in pay. Now assuming that the latest stats are still correct, is costs about 10% less to live in Phoenix Metro than Chicago.

Also one of the main reasons for low marks of AZ schools is the low student funding ratio in public schools. grimi66 made a good point about the charter schools in the area, BASIS has some of the top schools in the country (top 10 nationally) if you want to go that route. There is also Great Hearts and other charters as well as Private School options.