Phoenix #9 America's Best Cities (university, tax, living)
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The Phoenix area should be less of a snowbird & retirement destination, and more of a year round destination for everybody. A lot of tourism that could be here goes to Vegas or southern CA instead, and that translates to lost revenue for us. We don't necessarily have to be flashy, but we do need to be more focused on business AND year round tourism. It is very possible to have both because other large cities do.
Southern California does have that big blue mass of water on it's western border and 80-degree temps, though.
I was in Phoenix for Labor Day weekend (Sept.) of 2015.....yeah....won't do that again! Yikes!!!
Cancelled my reservation at the Gainey Ranch Hyatt on the second night and hightailed it up to Sedona for the remaining three days!
Southern California does have that big blue mass of water on it's western border and 80-degree temps, though.
And what about Vegas with its 115 degree temps last summer, and 117 degree record high in June of this year? Obviously the summer heat hasn't caused their tourism to suffer ... although the COVID scare certainly did. Point being that the heat shouldn't be an excuse for Phoenix to not have large scale theme parks & entertainment options, and be a year round destination.
And what about Vegas with its 115 degree temps last summer, and 117 degree record high in June of this year? Obviously the summer heat hasn't caused their tourism to suffer ... although the COVID scare certainly did. Point being that the heat shouldn't be an excuse for Phoenix to not have large scale theme parks & entertainment options, and be a year round destination.
Las Vegas blasts cold air throughout the casino floors, and you've got pool parties at all the resorts, which feeds into nightlife and clubs and entertainment.
The typical "Vegas weekend" is:
-- light breakfast
-- shopping
-- lunch snack
-- pool party & drinks and/or spa
-- casino games
-- more shopping again
-- clubbing / concert venues
-- late night drinks
(repeat)
It's sort of set up for year-round entertainment.
Large-scale theme parks? I'm trying to picture Universal Studios, Six Flags, Knott's Berry Farm or Legoland in the "Valley of the Sun" and I just can't... Who's going to want to fly into Sky Harbor in June and go to a theme park where the metal bars on the rides will burn the crap out of their hands and arms or legs? You'd also have to run misters 24/7 and people would be fighting and attacking each other over a small amount of shade. It would be miserable. I've seen that here in California on 85-degree days.
Remember, Las Vegas tried a smallish theme park behind the MGM Grand back in the late 1990s and it failed miserably.
Last edited by apple92680; 07-31-2021 at 10:34 AM..
Las Vegas blasts cold air throughout the casino floors, and you've got pool parties at all the resorts, which feeds into nightlife and clubs and entertainment.
The typical "Vegas weekend" is:
-- light breakfast
-- shopping
-- lunch snack
-- pool party & drinks and/or spa
-- casino games
-- more shopping again
-- clubbing / concert venues
-- late night drinks
(repeat)
It's sort of set up for year-round entertainment.
Even with this, plenty of people still walk along the Strip, even during the summer in the blazing sun & 110+ temps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by apple92680
Large-scale theme parks? I'm trying to picture Universal Studios, Six Flags, Knott's Berry Farm or Legoland in the "Valley of the Sun" and I just can't... Who's going to want to fly into Sky Harbor in June and go to a theme park where the metal bars on the rides will burn the crap out of their hands and arms or legs? You'd also have to run misters 24/7 and people would be fighting and attacking each other over a small amount of shade. It would be miserable. I've seen that here in California on 85-degree days.
Remember, Las Vegas tried a smallish theme park behind the MGM Grand back in the late 1990s and it failed miserably.
Well, lots of morons arrive in Phoenix during the summer and go hiking on Camelback Mountain, Piestewa Peak, etc. Many of them are unprepared, so you could say they burn the crap out of their bodies, and they end up with heat exhaustion & having to be pulled off the trails. Watch some of the local news channels here (especially 3 TV), and they actually encourage hiking as an activity here, even during the summer!
()
Large scale theme parks would open the gates to more tourism & offer something more for local residents. Translation: more money which could stay here instead of going to California or Nevada. Claiming that theme parks wouldn't work here because of the heat is a BAD excuse because we hear people say all the time that our heat isn't all that bad due it mostly being a "dry heat". Even so, we could have indoor amusement parks. Dubai is hotter than Phoenix, but they have year round tourism because many things are either indoor or water based. Same with Vegas (as you mentioned). Phoenix can do the same.
It's about time a report ranked Phoenix with the bigger cities. IMO this report is spot on. I always see these top places to live with Austin, Raleigh, Charlotte, Nashville and Madison, WI. No offense to those cities but many of them are trying to be the next Austin. They're smaller and lacking. Phoenix in the last 10 years has done a great job in balancing our laid back chill culture with job growth. Almost every out of towner I know brings up how laid back we are and they love it. We aren't trying to be any other city. The same goes for the others in the top 10. Even if people are moving from NYC, LA and SF there are still others that want to live there. They have their identities and ours is definitely developing into a cosmopolitan culture.
I see comments mentioning that Arizona needs to be more business friendly. Our climate helps mitigate anything that may hurt us on that front. Our weather is awesome with the exception of 3 months but it is manageable. Sure, it would be nice to get more HQs but we have many regional hubs here. Once you get companies like Tesla and other high profile tech ones coming then they turn those cities into soulless corporate wastelands (Look at Dallas and so on). I'm good with some of them just putting data centers here. Phoenix should keep attracting a diverse group of industries and not chase the next Amazon HQ. We recently made inroads in the electric car industry. That's great.
People move to certain cities only for their careers. Go look at a list of the most business friendly states and you will appreciate what we have here in Arizona. I love that people here are not career obsessed. Many areas in the US are a different story.
It's about time a report ranked Phoenix with the bigger cities. IMO this report is spot on. I always see these top places to live with Austin, Raleigh, Charlotte, Nashville and Madison, WI. No offense to those cities but many of them are trying to be the next Austin. They're smaller and lacking. Phoenix in the last 10 years has done a great job in balancing our laid back chill culture with job growth. Almost every out of towner I know brings up how laid back we are and they love it. We aren't trying to be any other city. The same goes for the others in the top 10. Even if people are moving from NYC, LA and SF there are still others that want to live there. They have their identities and ours is definitely developing into a cosmopolitan culture.
I see comments mentioning that Arizona needs to be more business friendly. Our climate helps mitigate anything that may hurt us on that front. Our weather is awesome with the exception of 3 months but it is manageable. Sure, it would be nice to get more HQs but we have many regional hubs here. Once you get companies like Tesla and other high profile tech ones coming then they turn those cities into soulless corporate wastelands (Look at Dallas and so on). I'm good with some of them just putting data centers here. Phoenix should keep attracting a diverse group of industries and not chase the next Amazon HQ. We recently made inroads in the electric car industry. That's great.
People move to certain cities only for their careers. Go look at a list of the most business friendly states and you will appreciate what we have here in Arizona. I love that people here are not career obsessed. Many areas in the US are a different story.
First you said that it's good to see Phoenix ranked with the bigger cities, then you thought it's good that Phoenix is laid back, then later you stated we're developing into a cosmopolitan culture, and then you made the comment that you'd rather have data centers and regional offices here instead of large company HQs. Sorry, but that's contradictory. We can't be cosmopolitan and expect to compete with the other large metros by being mostly a data center, back office, or regional hub. We might as well be the size of Raleigh or Madison with that attitude.
Regional offices are fine, but they usually offer a limited number of jobs, many of which are low to medium pay along with a smaller amount of higher paid positions. The high salaried management & executive levels are usually at the corporate HQs, and that's where the major decisions are made.
Claiming that cities with national & global HQs are "soulless corporate wastelands" is an exaggeration. These businesses not only provide competitive jobs, but they sponsor numerous charities & provide infrastructure improvements for the cities where they're based (hardly "soulless"). It's important for large cities like Phoenix to be home to corporate HQs. Aside from the reasons I stated above, corporations also pay a large amount of taxes to help the local coffers, and their presence helps boost the image of the home city.
First you said that it's good to see Phoenix ranked with the bigger cities, then you thought it's good that Phoenix is laid back, then later you stated we're developing into a cosmopolitan culture, and then you made the comment that you'd rather have data centers and regional offices here instead of large company HQs. Sorry, but that's contradictory. We can't be cosmopolitan and expect to compete with the other large metros by being mostly a data center, back office, or regional hub. We might as well be the size of Raleigh or Madison with that attitude.
Regional offices are fine, but they usually offer a limited number of jobs, many of which are low to medium pay along with a smaller amount of higher paid positions. The high salaried management & executive levels are usually at the corporate HQs, and that's where the major decisions are made.
Claiming that cities with national & global HQs are "soulless corporate wastelands" is an exaggeration. These businesses not only provide competitive jobs, but they sponsor numerous charities & provide infrastructure improvements for the cities where they're based (hardly "soulless"). It's important for large cities like Phoenix to be home to corporate HQs. Aside from the reasons I stated above, corporations also pay a large amount of taxes to help the local coffers, and their presence helps boost the image of the home city.
Cosmopolitan doesn’t mean HQs. It’s more of culture. You misunderstood most of my post. Maybe I was confusing. I mentioned Dallas as an example of a city gaining HQs but not exactly a great place to live. People are only moving to certain cities for jobs. Along with the midsize cities I mentioned. Nowhere did I say all large cities. It’s why many of them are not in the top 10. The ones listed with Phoenix in the top 10 were not what I meant.
Phoenix shouldn’t chase high profile tech companies because other cities will win out. Our best bet is a regional business office. Companies like Tesla, Google, Apple, Facebook and so on. We’re mostly a data center hub for them. Instead the city should focus on other lower profile high tech companies and industries. That doesn’t mean all data centers. Austin got a lot of those high profile tech HQs and their culture is very corporate now from what I hear. That’s what I meant by soulless corporate culture. NY, SF, Boston have HQs and still retained their culture. Along with other large cities.
Some regional hubs do have lower pay. When I moved here 20 years ago this was a call center low pay city. Almost everyone I know now works from home or a regional hub and does well. There is a lot of room for improvement tho.
We’re at a disadvantage because we don’t have a prestigious university and the people are laid back. Some see that as a pro as it keeps the Phoenix from becoming another high paced rat race city. It doesn’t mean no one has ambition. Just that they’re not going to waste their lives away for work. People don’t just move to Phoenix for jobs. There are usually other factors too. Change of scenery, love the outdoors, family, lower cost of living, etc.
Hopefully that explains it because my post was meant to be positive. Once I read the report the light bulb went off that we probably placed higher because we’re not trying to be another city. These others want to be the next Austin. Many times these reports always list 10 midsize cities and don’t look at actual quality of life but just job growth. One weekend and you can cover all the things to do there.
If you count the 49ers, who now play in next door Santa Clara, San Jose has 2 pro sports teams (including the Sharks in the NHL), and the Bay Area as a whole also has the Warriors (NBA), and the Giants&A's (MLB)
San Jose really has 3 MLSports Teams NFL,MLS,NHL.........
It wasn't long ago the only time you read about AZ was when Joe A or laws pertaining to illegal immigration made the national news. However, AZ went blue the last election and is considered a solid purple state making it attractive to those on the left. To be sure downtown Phx isn't going to make anyone forget the Mission district in SF but I see similarities: the young white couples, the trendy coffee shops, the newly built apartment buildings, the expensive homes, the homeless and riff-raff mixed in throughout the area.
Now, Phx might be the 5th largest city in the country but only recently has it been given the green light by those on the far-left. No less an expert than my brother (who lives in Cal. but joined a phone bank to call AZ voters on Biden's behalf in 2020) has given Phx his stamp of approval when he remarked, "Phx is a good city."
AZ is moving in the right direction but more work needs to be done to attract the better paying jobs.
In recent news: I had a fellow with Intel earning 168k a year check out my rental property. Unfortunately he didn't take the house but a couple earning 93k a year did.
Chandler is booming right now.
Last edited by john3232; 08-03-2021 at 01:16 PM..
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Yikes!!! 
Who's going to want to fly into Sky Harbor in June and go to a theme park where the metal bars on the rides will burn the crap out of their hands and arms or legs? You'd also have to run misters 24/7 and people would be fighting and attacking each other over a small amount of shade. It would be miserable. I've seen that here in California on 85-degree days. 
