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I guess I don't understand your hot button with two facts of life when you live in a sprawling metro area like PHX. Certainly, the farther out people are from the location, the less they travel to the area. If you are attracted to "your" team, then you have to deal with some extra drive time and parking. Are they hassles? Yep! But you are in the severe minority if you can not handle a possible hot car, an extra 15-30 drive, plus extra x minutes to find a parking slot. It really doesn't register with me. Parking? Hot car? and extra 15 minutes one way? No biggie!
Re: the Superbowl, notice the many cars there will be in the parking lot. That's because the bulk of the people were not chauffeured to the event. If you really want to be chauffeured, get a Lyft (as lately, they always cost less).
I get the feeling you assume the rest of the Valley thinks like you. But they don't.
We agree, I don't want to subsidize arenas. Or community colleges (I just looked at my property taxes). But it seems that we are in the minority. I take it in stride and go make some more money versus getting myself all worked up over it.
I haven't been to a game in another venue, but parking at the Cardinals stadium is not a big deal. I used to have season tickets at both ASU and State Farm. State Farm is better for parking. Much easier to get to. Clears out faster, though that is always a mess at these things. (I have to admit that other than when a marquee team was in town at ASU, you could just about park in front of the door) Then there is the real fun for real fans - tailgating. They have a really nice tailgate area - all grassed and the trees are finally getting tall for a little shade. It's too darn hot though until Thanksgiving for that IMO. Lots of people come to the games on chartered buses too. Party buses maybe, and from the resorts. It is really not the big deal VN is making it out to be and if one had Super Bowl tickets and did not use them because of traffic or parking - well that would be really stupid - even for free game tickets. I just think some people have an axe to grind because the stadium is in (gasp!) Glendale.
I guess I don't understand your hot button with two facts of life when you live in a sprawling metro area like PHX. Certainly, the farther out people are from the location, the less they travel to the area. If you are attracted to "your" team, then you have to deal with some extra drive time and parking. Are they hassles? Yep! But you are in the severe minority if you can not handle a possible hot car, an extra 15-30 drive, plus extra x minutes to find a parking slot. It really doesn't register with me. Parking? Hot car? and extra 15 minutes one way? No biggie!
Re: the Superbowl, notice the many cars there will be in the parking lot. That's because the bulk of the people were not chauffeured to the event. If you really want to be chauffeured, get a Lyft (as lately, they always cost less).
I get the feeling you assume the rest of the Valley thinks like you. But they don't.
Lots of metro areas are just as sprawling as (if not more so than) Phoenix is. Yet, look at where the majority of hockey arenas are located: in centralized areas where there's sufficient access to mass transit, and better choices for dining & other entertainment. Many NFL stadiums are away from downtown areas because of the required capacity, but they are still easily accessible for the majority of residents.
San Jose is one of the most decentralized cities I've been to, and the SF 49ers play in nearby Santa Clara, but there's light rail access to that venue. Atlanta is another very sprawling metro area, but their NFL stadium is within close proximity of downtown with a MARTA station close by. The majority of people commute by car in all these other metros just like in the Phoenix area. So ask yourself this: why do we have to be different than all those other places?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa
I just think some people have an axe to grind because the stadium is in (gasp!) Glendale.
As I said before: it has nothing to do with dislike for Glendale or the west Valley because I'd have the same complaints if it was in the far east Valley or on tribal land. Gila River Arena and the Westgate entertainment district were actually designed very well, and I like the concept of it, but the location is the big issue for me (and many others).
Lots of metro areas are just as sprawling as (if not more so than) Phoenix is. Yet, look at where the majority of hockey arenas are located: in centralized areas where there's sufficient access to mass transit, and better choices for dining & other entertainment. Many NFL stadiums are away from downtown areas because of the required capacity, but they are still easily accessible for the majority of residents.
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Naw. It's an extra 15-30 minutes of drive time for a lot of people in every sprawling city. While Glendale as a city has a ton of area much farther away from the majority of the population, the stadium isn't located that far out of the way. It's not. You are not alone. Traffic patterns are engrained in our brains. When people make runs, they like to drive in more central versus driving in the other direction. You have a preconceived idea that you don't want to drive to the West Valley. I get it. But that's your tick.
Americans love their cars. Mass transit isn't a factor unless you are talking about highly congested areas like Boston. In Boston, their mass transit is a well-oiled machine. It will always have terrible mass transit in a sprawling area PHX or MPLS or Indy or ___________. People simply hop in their cars and park. It is what it is.
I'm not saying Glendale is the best location and their entertainment and dining are amazing. Rather, it's acceptable for most people. And you are an outlier that wants it closer, indoor parking, or mass transit. They cannot capture everyone and obviously not you. Meanwhile, the Superbowl is coming back with all of the trade-offs. Now having the pre-party downtown, a party a day before in Westgate (which was absolute FLOP last time: I was there), and a Superbowl day of pre-party in Scottsdale is stupid. But evidentially, people don't mind. Having a Superbowl in downtown MPLS was even more idiotic because of the weather. YMMV.
Naw. It's an extra 15-30 minutes of drive time for a lot of people in every sprawling city. While Glendale as a city has a ton of area much farther away from the majority of the population, the stadium isn't located that far out of the way. It's not. You are not alone. Traffic patterns are engrained in our brains. When people make runs, they like to drive in more central versus driving in the other direction. You have a preconceived idea that you don't want to drive to the West Valley. I get it. But that's your tick.
Americans love their cars. Mass transit isn't a factor unless you are talking about highly congested areas like Boston. In Boston, their mass transit is a well-oiled machine. It will always have terrible mass transit in a sprawling area PHX or MPLS or Indy or ___________. People simply hop in their cars and park. It is what it is.
I'm not saying Glendale is the best location and their entertainment and dining are amazing. Rather, it's acceptable for most people. And you are an outlier that wants it closer, indoor parking, or mass transit. They cannot capture everyone and obviously not you. Meanwhile, the Superbowl is coming back with all of the trade-offs. Now having the pre-party downtown, a party a day before in Westgate (which was absolute FLOP last time: I was there), and a Superbowl day of pre-party in Scottsdale is stupid. But evidentially, people don't mind. Having a Superbowl in downtown MPLS was even more idiotic because of the weather. YMMV.
The Superbowl thing downtown Phoenix is a great example of what happens when your light rail is more of a tourist attraction than an actual people mover. We went to the west terminus figuring to catch a ride on the light rail to the festivities. The wait was over an hour to be packed in like cattle for the trip downtown. We drove. Parked easily and enjoyed the event though it was windy and cold.
Also, I don't see the problem having events in different places. Why should it all be near the stadium in a big, sprawling city like this?
Glendale will have a few more things going for it in 2023 as well. Crystal Lagoons Resort and the Mattel Theme Park plans to be completed next year. The Great Lawn project at the Stadium is going up with restrooms, bars, food at the tailgate area. Tiger Woods PopStroke was talking about a 18 hole mini course there and there is now TopGolf across the street. En Fuego which is a mixed use development is adding more chain style eateries between the Entertainment District and the casino. Apartments are going up all over the place out there. It has taken 20 years, but things seem to be finally coming together. Who knows? Is light rail in their future?
The Superbowl thing downtown Phoenix is a great example of what happens when your light rail is more of a tourist attraction than an actual people mover. We went to the west terminus figuring to catch a ride on the light rail to the festivities. The wait was over an hour to be packed in like cattle for the trip downtown. We drove. Parked easily and enjoyed the event though it was windy and cold.
Also, I don't see the problem having events in different places. Why should it all be near the stadium in a big, sprawling city like this?
Glendale will have a few more things going for it in 2023 as well. Crystal Lagoons Resort and the Mattel Theme Park plans to be completed next year. The Great Lawn project at the Stadium is going up with restrooms, bars, food at the tailgate area. Tiger Woods PopStroke was talking about a 18 hole mini course there and there is now TopGolf across the street. En Fuego which is a mixed use development is adding more chain style eateries between the Entertainment District and the casino. Apartments are going up all over the place out there. It has taken 20 years, but things seem to be finally coming together. Who knows? Is light rail in their future?
You have a great listing ^^ of what is in store for the Westgate area. When we lived in Surprise, this non-golfer enjoyed playing top golf at their new facility. Park West mall is adjacent to Westgate off of Northern also has Cabin Whiskey and Grill, and BJ's. I liked them both.
But your right, over the past 8 years, the area is finally taking off. After all, a lot of the growth is on the West side of town. More positive changes are coming! VN can check it out in 2031 in his self-driving car. All in fun VN!
Americans love their cars. Mass transit isn't a factor unless you are talking about highly congested areas like Boston. In Boston, their mass transit is a well-oiled machine. It will always have terrible mass transit in a sprawling area PHX or MPLS or Indy or ___________. People simply hop in their cars and park. It is what it is.
My point about mass transit is it's more widely available in places which are just as sprawling or more so. I'm referring to metro regions like Atlanta, which has a lot more sprawl than Phoenix, and I'm sure residents there love their cars just as much as here or anywhere else. Atlanta's venues are in centralized areas with available mass transit. Same goes for many other cities. With that, I don't get why Phoenix has to be different than the norm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa
The Superbowl thing downtown Phoenix is a great example of what happens when your light rail is more of a tourist attraction than an actual people mover. We went to the west terminus figuring to catch a ride on the light rail to the festivities. The wait was over an hour to be packed in like cattle for the trip downtown. We drove. Parked easily and enjoyed the event though it was windy and cold.
I remember the 2015 Super Bowl events downtown, and our experiences were different. The light rail was heavily used, but we had no problems finding seats, and we avoided traffic & parking. The festivities were packed, and everybody was enjoying themselves despite it being rainy for 2 or 3 days straight (and fog the morning of the game). The only ones I heard complaining about the weather were a small percentage of local residents.
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Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised
But your right, over the past 8 years, the area is finally taking off. After all, a lot of the growth is on the West side of town. More positive changes are coming! VN can check it out in 2031 in his self-driving car. All in fun VN!
Some of the upcoming projects for that area (such as Mattel theme park) sound impressive, but as usual, I'm in the "I'll believe it when I see it" camp. There was supposed to be major development underway 15 years ago in the Westgate area, which never materialized (look up Steve Ellman). That's why I say that if it was truly successful, there should have been much more development by now, and the financial burden wouldn't have been forced onto taxpayers. We can't keep using the recession, COVID, or any other lame excuse as the reasons.
There's a very good reason why the Coyotes want to move to Tempe: it's in a better location ... maybe not the best location, but I saw the plans for the arena & the development, and it seems very impressive. Even with this, I'm skeptical based on past experience with major proposed developments that ended up being scrapped or scaled back. In the meantime, I'll wait 10 years to head out to Westgate to see the progress when my autonomous flying DeLorean becomes a reality.
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History repeats itself. Nearly 20 years ago, the original site planned for the Cards stadium was just up the street at Priest & Washington, and it was scrapped due to the same concerns about the Sky Harbor flight path. This was one of the reasons why the stadium was built in Glendale. Having sports & entertainment centers close to a major airport is no big deal. The stadium would have been enclosed, and modern architecture has ways of drowning out jet noise.
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Originally Posted by cjseliga
Move it further east to the NW corner of Rio Salado and McClintock and extend the Tempe Streetcar!
Well, if Tempe ends up being a no go, then just build it in downtown Phoenix where it belongs anyway. Shouldn't be too difficult to find a large open parking lot or run down building that can razed for the arena. That way, there would already be restaurants, bars, and adequate mass transit without having to extend the system or build a massive entertainment complex (although an entertainment district downtown sounds appealing).
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