Median price for Phoenix house goes up to $450,000 (Mesa, Scottsdale: for sale, apartment)
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It depends. Back when I bought it, it was about $110K for a 2000 square footer. And about $140K for a 2600-2800 square foot home. For a $3500-3800 square foot, it was $170K to $190K. So I figured, why not buy the bigger one.
Fast forward. Percentage-wise, the smaller ones went up more in the exact neighborhood. But dollar increase wise, from 2011 to 2018, add about $180K to all sizes in the same neighborhood.
I was using Zillow's numbers for my conclusion that Maricopa had a substantially higher % growth than Scottsdale over the last 10 years and even this year had a higher % growth. Here in Maricopa, the smaller ones did increase higher % than larger one that I bought that was 4000 sq ft.
Above link is from January of this year, but it still shows how the Phoenix market is definitely more expensive than much of the nation ... main exceptions being the west & east coasts, and a few in between. Anybody who is searching for cheap housing can no longer put the Phoenix area on the list, thankfully so. They can go to the Midwest, the South, or the Rust Belt for that!
Above link is from January of this year, but it still shows how the Phoenix market is definitely more expensive than much of the nation ... main exceptions being the west & east coasts, and a few in between. Anybody who is searching for cheap housing can no longer put the Phoenix area on the list, thankfully so. They can go to the Midwest, the South, or the Rust Belt for that!
Just a thought, be careful posting such specifics (the info I deleted in my quote). Posting when you bought, the square footage, price and city is easily searchable and there a growing sentiment of "landlord hate" out there. Be careful
People can always find someone to "hate". I suppose I could "hate" the people who run the shipping container companies who are squarely affecting my industry and profits. Because as of recent, they made more money in each single quarter over the past year than the previous 5 years combined. https://theloadstar.com/q4-20-the-mo...ill-be-better/ All the while their service level dropped to pathetic levels. I digress...
Like some container routes have skyrocketed 600%.https://newseu.cgtn.com/news/2021-01...2mY/index.html . Now do we need "container control"? Mind you, when the pandemic started and per the article, container hauers were predicted to lose $10B. Of course, if that happened, we all would have enjoyed cheaper overhead resulting in lower prices while the shipping companies suffered while dropping their pant$.
Same with the rents and housing. If the government(s) didn't print money like mad, there would have been a massive economical crash. Your home values and rents could have crashed and burned. Some of the landlord haters would have rejoiced and danced on people's graves. The lesson: there ARE risks when you enter into any business. You simply happen to have won this round big time so your risks have paid off. Rewind 15 years, john3232 has been balanced and explained how he suffered an enormous loss for the rentals during the great recession. That also meant an incredible level of stress! I would wish that level of stress on my worst enemy!
It is about risk-reward. If you are "fair" when prices rise, don't expect your tenant to be "fair" in return when you explain how you are sucking wind and need a few hundred more per month just to break even. Because your renters will point to what the market rates are going for and rejoice! All the while your equity (net worth) drops like a rock. It's dog-eat-dog out there. So you better capitalize while you can because the pendulum eventually will swing the other way.
We are all where we are for a reason. Some people coasted during school while others picked not-so-good paying careers. Maybe some people cannot control their urge to spend. Whatever the reason, people are where they are for a reason. Like everyone, I am upset at my missed opportunities. Re-tool or learn to save or move or _____. That's just the reality. No economic system is even close to perfect. "Hating" is destructive and counterproductive.
Last edited by MN-Born-n-Raised; 08-29-2021 at 05:07 AM..
People can always find someone to "hate". I suppose I could "hate" the people who run the shipping container companies who are squarely affecting my industry and profits. Because as of recent, they made more money in each single quarter over the past year than the previous 5 years combined. https://theloadstar.com/q4-20-the-mo...ill-be-better/ All the while their service level dropped to pathetic levels. I digress...
Like some container routes have skyrocketed 600%.https://newseu.cgtn.com/news/2021-01...2mY/index.html . Now do we need "container control"? Mind you, when the pandemic started and per the article, container hauers were predicted to lose $10B. Of course, if that happened, we all would have enjoyed cheaper overhead resulting in lower prices while the shipping companies suffered while dropping their pant$.
Same with the rents and housing. If the government(s) didn't print money like mad, there would have been a massive economical crash. Your home values and rents could have crashed and burned. Some of the landlord haters would have rejoiced and danced on people's graves. The lesson: there ARE risks when you enter into any business. You simply happen to have won this round big time so your risks have paid off. Rewind 15 years, john3232 has been balanced and explained how he suffered an enormous loss for the rentals during the great recession. That also meant an incredible level of stress! I would wish that level of stress on my worst enemy!
It is about risk-reward. If you are "fair" when prices rise, don't expect your tenant to be "fair" in return when you explain how you are sucking wind and need a few hundred more per month just to break even. Because your renters will point to what the market rates are going for and rejoice! All the while your equity (net worth) drops like a rock. It's dog-eat-dog out there. So you better capitalize while you can because the pendulum eventually will swing the other way.
We are all where we are for a reason. Some people coasted during school while others picked not-so-good paying careers. Maybe some people cannot control their urge to spend. Whatever the reason, people are where they are for a reason. Like everyone, I am upset at my missed opportunities. Re-tool or learn to save or move or _____. That's just the reality. No economic system is even close to perfect. "Hating" is destructive and counterproductive.
Housing is a human need to survive, shipping containers are not. These two do not exist on the same supply-demand curve as a result. Just like for many people insulin is a need, and they have to take that medicine in order to survive. Demand curve is different for a medication than it is for a Ford F-150. Just like housing has a different supply and demand curve than a gym membership.
If you can’t understand basic economics between needs and wants then maybe you should take Econ 101. When people look for a place to rent, they aren’t doing it because they want to. They are doing it because they *need* to. Homelessness is illegal. It is literally a criminal act not to play into the housing/rental market, you have no choice. As a result housing in a capitalist system is a human NEED or you will get thrown in jail and have a criminal record and become unhirable in the eyes of many.
No one is forcing you into an industry that deals with shipping containers. No one is forcing people to become landlords by law. I am being forced to rent or buy property (as a primary residence for myself) however to avoid a jail sentence.
Everyone rents at some point in their life unless they are some kind of trust fund baby. People who are just starting out don’t have the resources to buy and are more likely to be transient, favoring the rental structure. How long people rent varies. The point is renting is the entry level requirement to satisfy the “DO NOT BE HOMELESS” portion of our law. Therefore renting is the standard baseline of protection. If you are going to make something a criminal offense with punishments, like homelessness, then morally you have to give your citizens the opportunity not to be criminals. In a fair and just system people should have the opportunity to easily avoid criminal acts. I shouldn’t be a criminal just to survive in my own country, especially when I didn’t have a choice on where I was born.
Anyone who can buy property can afford rent, but not everyone who can rent can afford to buy.
A similar comparison to draw here is drinking water. People have a right to safe and clean potable water for drinking, hygiene, etc. all considered basic human rights and needs to function in a modern society. Almost everyone in the United States has access to legally safe potable water from the tap for pennies on the dollar. If you don’t like your tap water, you can buy bottled water at market price with the exception for natural disasters when price gouging is illegal. But that is a choice you do not have to buy bottled water, you aren’t forced to by law. People have a requirement to have housing due to the fact that legally they are not allowed to be homeless. Renting is the entry level requirement due to the upfront costs of buying property like credit scores, some degree of money for down payment and closing costs, etc. This is why there are more laws for renters protections and social welfare programs to help people afford this LEGALLY REQUIRED necessity. And why there are and always will be few laws for landlord protection. No one is forcing you to be a landlord, but I am being forced to rent
Housing is a human need to survive, shipping containers are not. These two do not exist on the same supply-demand curve as a result. Just like for many people insulin is a need, and they have to take that medicine in order to survive.
If "human need to survive" (food) in other countries, then the container issue is impacting the world. I could go on about how people who live pay-check-to-paycheck are getting laid off because of parts shortages. I could rattle off 20 examples of personal examples. But it sounds like you are an econ expert.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prickly Pear
If you can’t understand basic economics between needs and wants then maybe you should take Econ 101.
I took your lecture that I could learn a thing or two from you.... Or might it be the other way around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prickly Pear
Everyone rents at some point in their life unless they are some kind of trust fund baby. People who are just starting out don’t have the resources to buy and are more likely to be transient, favoring the rental structure.
That's not true. I got married (two incomes) at age 21 and I closed on a house one month before I got married. We plowed our own path. We had no help from our parents. We paid for our wedding, saved like mad at an early age. I worked on a "truck farm" picking radishes by the bushel and weeding starting at age 12. My wife worked at a grocery store and was making $9.75 an hour in the "meatpacking union" in the early 80's (she worked at a local grocery store checking people out). that would be around $30/hour today. I gave my parents a few thousand dollars in the 70's to pay for my mom's leg brace and they could not pay me back. Cut, paste, repeat with my wife. I worked overtime like mad too. As I said, people are where they are for a reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prickly Pear
No one is forcing you to be a landlord, but I am being forced to rent
I have not rented my homes out since 2014. I'm not a landlord. Now would you like to hear some horror stories about how some of my friends who ARE landlords are getting abused by the laws that protect people? As in, they are manipulating the system because they can.
The lesson: there ARE risks when you enter into any business. You simply happen to have won this round big time so your risks have paid off. Rewind 15 years, john3232 has been balanced and explained how he suffered an enormous loss for the rentals during the great recession. That also meant an incredible level of stress! I would wish that level of stress on my worst enemy!
With regards to the AZ properties, I was wiped out by 2009. My SF property was appraised at $244k and I would have had to sell it if I wanted to pay off the loans I owed. I had no choice but to move forward. Had to ride it out. Walking away wasn't an option.
A Mesa home bought in 2005 for 180k was worth 75-80k in 2009. Today 360k but this is all on paper just like the value in 2009. Nothing is real until I sell.
There were many who were ecstatic when the housing market had crashed. A co-worker laughed and told me Phoenix should be re-named Atlantis because home values were deep underwater. What could I say? Nobody forced me to buy the homes in 2005. I put myself in such a position and it was up to me to get myself out. Stressful? Let me just say I developed a stomach disorder which never quite went away. Then there were the times I was teaching and my students would start to laugh. Why? Because I was so deep in my head thinking about my financial troubles, I was repeating the same questions. (Which I blamed on my reading glasses.)
So, yes time to collect as rents climb. Time to reap the rewards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prickly Pear
Housing is a human need to survive, shipping containers are not. These two do not exist on the same supply-demand curve as a result. Just like for many people insulin is a need, and they have to take that medicine in order to survive. Demand curve is different for a medication than it is for a Ford F-150. Just like housing has a different supply and demand curve than a gym membership.
If you can’t understand basic economics between needs and wants then maybe you should take Econ 101. When people look for a place to rent, they aren’t doing it because they want to. They are doing it because they *need* to. Homelessness is illegal. It is literally a criminal act not to play into the housing/rental market, you have no choice. As a result housing in a capitalist system is a human NEED or you will get thrown in jail and have a criminal record and become unhirable in the eyes of many.
No one is forcing you into an industry that deals with shipping containers. No one is forcing people to become landlords by law. I am being forced to rent or buy property (as a primary residence for myself) however to avoid a jail sentence.
Everyone rents at some point in their life unless they are some kind of trust fund baby. People who are just starting out don’t have the resources to buy and are more likely to be transient, favoring the rental structure. How long people rent varies. The point is renting is the entry level requirement to satisfy the “DO NOT BE HOMELESS” portion of our law. Therefore renting is the standard baseline of protection. If you are going to make something a criminal offense with punishments, like homelessness, then morally you have to give your citizens the opportunity not to be criminals. In a fair and just system people should have the opportunity to easily avoid criminal acts. I shouldn’t be a criminal just to survive in my own country, especially when I didn’t have a choice on where I was born.
Anyone who can buy property can afford rent, but not everyone who can rent can afford to buy.
A similar comparison to draw here is drinking water. People have a right to safe and clean potable water for drinking, hygiene, etc. all considered basic human rights and needs to function in a modern society. Almost everyone in the United States has access to legally safe potable water from the tap for pennies on the dollar. If you don’t like your tap water, you can buy bottled water at market price with the exception for natural disasters when price gouging is illegal. But that is a choice you do not have to buy bottled water, you aren’t forced to by law. People have a requirement to have housing due to the fact that legally they are not allowed to be homeless. Renting is the entry level requirement due to the upfront costs of buying property like credit scores, some degree of money for down payment and closing costs, etc. This is why there are more laws for renters protections and social welfare programs to help people afford this LEGALLY REQUIRED necessity. And why there are and always will be few laws for landlord protection. No one is forcing you to be a landlord, but I am being forced to rent
Nobody is forcing you to do anything. Go live in a boarding house if need be. I did. Twice. You have a job and a certain income. Your income determines where you rent. You don't get to choose say East Mesa over West. You live where you can afford. As was mentioned earlier in this thread the Phx metro is no longer inexpensive.
With regards to rent control laws: my guess is at some point the issue will be heard before the USSC. When I first started renting property in SF the lease agreement was for one year. I asked my PM at the end the year why the lease automatically rolled over to month to month. My PM told me that's the law in SF.
I'm not sure many rent control laws today are legal. I have no problem with anti-discrimination laws or laws which state I must maintain my rental property. However, I don't think the high court will agree a city or state can decide how much I can charge or dictate conditions of a lease agreement such as the length. If I want to take back a rental property after a lease has expired I should have that right. I sign a lease with a start/end date as does the tenant. I don't think a city can decide I can't simply vacate a rental after a lease agreement expires. Or if I do I must provide moving costs and a city decides how much.
SF has extreme renter protection law as does NY and a number of other cities. At some point rent control will end up before the USSC but I don't think renters are going to like the outcome.
In any event if a day comes when I can't remove renters at the end of an AZ lease agreement without a costly hassle. That's the day I look to sell.
Within the first 6-8 months of a lease I can tell if I will be able to get along with tenants. If someone tells me they "smell mold" or the AC temperature won't drop fast enough to their likening or sneak in additional occupants or complain about the sound of pigpens in the mornings... well such renters have to go.
I'll give them at least 60 days but I want them out. The woman who snuck in family members offered me an additional $350 a month to stay. Forget it. I didn't like this woman. I gave her 60 days.. I wasn't renewing her lease period.
Of course. It's a known fact that the more desirable an area is, the higher the home values generally are. Income is a factor as well. As the saying goes: a person can't expect to have a champagne lifestyle on a beer budget. If you want cheap home prices with some extra money to spare, you could always buy a home in a place like Chattanooga, TN and rent out a room to Bubba or Billy Bob. Even cheaper than that is McAllen, TX where there are high rates of poverty & unemployment ... but hey, at least you'd have a good amount of warm weather & sunshine!
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I would wish that level of stress on my worst enemy!
