Phoenix Homeless Problem not as bad as other big cities (Glendale: bankruptcy, maintenance)

[YAZ]

Look, I realize we have to come up with something innovative to assist those folks in need.

But, with "Zone 2.0", is just gonna attract & incentivize people to camp out.

As an avid camper (I'm a tent guy), I'm always lookin' for the flat piece of ground to put stakes in.

Prediction:

There's gonna be a lot more of these "temporary" urban campgrounds in the future.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by YAZ

Look, I realize we have to come up with something innovative to assist those folks in need.

But, with "Zone 2.0", is just gonna attract & incentivize people to camp out.

As an avid camper (I'm a tent guy), I'm always lookin' for the flat piece of ground to put stakes in.

Prediction:

There's gonna be a lot more of these "temporary" urban campgrounds in the future.

You are 100% accurate. Personally, I'm going to continue to dodge downtown. I've already erased visiting DT Minneapolis. I use to LOVE going Downtown. Speaking of MPLS, I was a diner table with a Commercial loan officer manager. They moved their office out of DT MPLS. He agrees with the projected 40% drop in values. Things are plummittng because they cater to idiotic policies. It's turning into a warzone https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/...ce-goes-unused

Some claim it was work from home that caused the 21 million square footage surplus in office space. He contends that it is downright dangerous to walk in previously super safe areas. I hope PHX isn't going to have to learn this lesson. We shall see....

[john3232]

If the idea is prevent people from camping/sleeping in parks, on the sidewalk or next to businesses it might be best if Phx officials abide by what the *Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled which is: People experiencing homelessness, can’t be punished for sleeping outside on public property if there are no adequate alternatives available.
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/losangel...ff-the-street/

Zone 2.0 appears to address the court’s concerns: If you have no place to go... then go to the new and (hopefully) improved "Zone" for assistance. It's my understanding there will be security and a place to shower.

On the other hand if you don't want help, you'll need to go somewhere else because you won't be allowed to sleep/camp wherever you please. If laws aren't enforced expect nothing to change and more lawsuits from the business community.



*The most powerful federal appeals court in the western United States once again refused to let cities and towns force the homeless off of the streets unless communities provide shelter for them.

Cities large and small across the west coast have tried, and failed, to overturn the higher court's ruling for years, the latest of which came from the Oregon city, Grants Pass.

"We are having a situation where the police were telling homeless people that they couldn't sleep in public or private, and private property," said Grants Pass Mayor Sara Bristol. "And eventually, that kind of boiled down to homeless people feeling like they couldn't find a place to rest where they weren't being harassed."

[john3232]

On second thought...

Zone 2.0

City officials say the cost will be partially covered by grant funds. They said the planned campground would give people who aren’t ready to be at shelters a place to safely camp. It is expected to handle more than 400 people and have security, bathrooms, showers and an indoor cooling center. City officials said the camp would be totally voluntary with the services preparing people to move to an indoor shelter or off the streets entirely. The city estimates the campground will operate for two to three years.

“Until we have the availability for everyone to have an indoor place, and until everyone is ready for an indoor place, this is an excellent alternative,” Rachel Milne, director of the Phoenix’s Office of Homeless Solutions, told the Republic.
https://wfin.com/fox-political-news/...ed-campground/


But what if the homeless refuse to move into Zone 2.0 and continue to camp wherever they please?

Becuase...

Phoenix is also under a court order to clean up a large homeless encampment in the downtown area. In March, the judge in a lawsuit filed on behalf of area residents and business owners ordered the city to devise a plan for enhanced cleanup operations for the encampment known as “The Zone.” The block-by-block cleanup started May 10 and continues every two or three weeks to ensure there is shelter space for everyone who has to relocate.


My guess is although Zone 2.0 is strictly volunteer it should pass as an adequate alternative to camping on sidewalks, parks ect. which the Ninth Circuit Court requires.

Assuming there is room available inside the Zone 2.0 authorities should be able to tell those on the streets you can't camp wherever you like. You need to move on.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by john3232

My guess is although Zone 2.0 is strictly volunteer it should pass as an adequate alternative to camping on sidewalks, parks ect. which the Ninth Circuit Court requires.

Assuming there is room available inside the Zone 2.0 authorities should be able to tell those on the streets you can't camp wherever you like. You need to move on.

Camping, shooting up, and defecating on the sidewalks/streets are against the law ... and one of the reasons it's a huge problem in many cities is the police have not been allowed to do their jobs by enforcing these laws. Thankfully, Phoenix has avoided becoming another San Francisco in this regard (I hope). As for those who are homeless: there is all kinds of help available. If they have no interest in getting assistance & improving themselves, there's nothing which can be done for them. Natural selection will work its course in those cases.

[thinkalot]

In this type of thread, I always mention one thing. The people that know them best, their friends and family, have given up on them. There is usually a reason for that.

[john3232]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Camping, shooting up, and defecating on the sidewalks/streets are against the law ... and one of the reasons it's a huge problem in many cities is the police have not been allowed to do their jobs by enforcing these laws. Thankfully, Phoenix has avoided becoming another San Francisco in this regard (I hope). As for those who are homeless: there is all kinds of help available. If they have no interest in getting assistance & improving themselves, there's nothing which can be done for them. Natural selection will work its course in those cases.

The city of Phoenix has been cleaning up the "Zone" as ordered by the court. Phoenix also appears to be trying to provide an adequate alternative to camping on sidewalks, parks etc., which the Ninth Circuit Court requires. But no matter what services are offered I suspect a large number will refuse help. They will continue to camp where they want and do as they please. And when told this behavior is no longer allowed the ACLU or homeless activists will file a lawsuit alleging police harassment and citing the Martin v. Boise decision.
https://homelesslaw.org/homeless-per...n-establishes/

So, then what...? Well, it's probably back to court.


This is from another fourm:
https://www.city-data.com/forum/65523830-post34.html
https://www.city-data.com/forum/65523966-post37.html
https://www.city-data.com/forum/65524371-post40.html

[john3232]

Originally Posted by thinkalot

In this type of thread, I always mention one thing. The people that know them best, their friends and family, have given up on them. There is usually a reason for that.

The below link is an interesting channel. The homeless (many from the Phx area) are asked to tell their story. No judgement. Just how did you end up on the street? Many ended up there because of substance abuse. And they continue to live there because they are active in their addiction.
https://www.youtube.com/@talesfromthestreets

[Bondurant]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

They're the ones who are perfectly able bodied, but simply don't want to work a regular job which involves more than standing/sitting & begging. You're correct for not giving them anything because they don't deserve it. The vast majority are scam artists who aren't truly homeless. Worst of all are the fakes who use children as pawns just to get extra money.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CynYgP8PcWc

This is happening here too. A guy I used to hang with from time to time at local soccer games was telling me about a friend of his, a teacher in Mesa. She had a student in her class that came to school once per week filthy and wearing shabby clothing. She finally asked the boy about the attire and he said that it was "free money day" and he told her about how after school his dad would be picking him up and they would go stand outside at different places and people would give them money. All a scam of course.

As for the original purpose of the thread it appears the OP skipped on the scenic tour of W. Madison and W. Jackson during their stay in Phoenix. Last I knew both had a stretch of a few blocks being lined with tents.

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by thinkalot

In this type of thread, I always mention one thing. The people that know them best, their friends and family, have given up on them. There is usually a reason for that.

My sister was that type of person. She never quite fell into the homeless category, but was certainly living on the edge of it. Most of us finally gave up on her, and with good reason. She worked less in her whole life than I worked in one year, never kept a job more than a few weeks. You couldn't count on her at all for anything. I'd drive 900 miles to visit my mother, she wouldn't drive 1 mile to see me (literally). Didn't even have a functioning toilet in the house where she and her deadhead significant other lived for 5 years. She was always a "life is so unfair" type of person.