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I disagree. The typical homeless living in those tent shanty congregations has a massive amount of mental illness combined with drug addiction. The homeless you are talking about might end up in their car.
Until their car breaks down you know how much a used car cost these days about 3 times what it cost in 2019. Some didn't have cars they were using public transportation.
Until their car breaks down you know how much a used car cost these days about 3 times what it cost in 2019. Some didn't have cars they were using public transportation.
I still disagree. There are homeless shelters for difficult situations like that ^^. For the most part, people who LIVE on the streets refuse to participate in a shelter because they are heavily addicted to their drugs or have deep, mental illnesses. That's a lot different than someone who cannot afford to pay rent.
Realize, parents' guest rooms around the country are full of (underperforming) children. And others are filled with their siblings. The VERY last resort is "expensive rent" kicking out an able-bodied working person. Forgetting that for a moment, self-employed house cleaners get paid $50 an hour. But that's tough work and too many people simply are unwilling to work hard in life.
I recently visited in the month of January and was struck how Phoenix is not hit as hard by the homeless problem with tent villages under bridges like you see in cities like Austin TX, Sacramento CA, all the big-name Cali cities and maybe Seattle and PDX. I would imagine Phoenix would be a destination too with the slightly similar temperature as the aforementioned cities. There is always this theory that they are all coming from the East Coast or Midwest to escape the cold. But really how is it so with Phoenix? is the blight hidden better or does the city offer better social welfare?
But it's there and its getting bigger. That's bad enough. One tent is bad enough. But one is manageable. A dozen or a hundred are manageable. But still bad enough. In LA, we're talking THOUSANDS.
But it's there and its getting bigger. That's bad enough. One tent is bad enough. But one is manageable. A dozen or a hundred are manageable. But still bad enough. In LA, we're talking THOUSANDS.
No question the problem is getting worse. A recent court ruling sided with business owners and ordered the sidewalks be free of tents and those who engage in disorderly conduct/disturb the peace.
However, the 9th circuit court will likely block the removal of tents until the city provides enough shelters/beds to accommodate those on the street.
Now, I suspect most of those living in the Zone will refuses the services but Phx must set them up. Once the ninth circuit court is satisfied the city can begin cleaning up the area. Where will those in the tents and sleeping on the sidewalks go? Wherever their behavior is tolerated.
I am in East Mesa and enjoy the Red Mountain Park as do many families. The Mesa Sheriff’s department monitors the area and getting f-up and/or camping in the park is not allowed.
I still disagree. There are homeless shelters for difficult situations like that ^^. For the most part, people who LIVE on the streets refuse to participate in a shelter because they are heavily addicted to their drugs or have deep, mental illnesses. That's a lot different than someone who cannot afford to pay rent.
Realize, parents' guest rooms around the country are full of (underperforming) children. And others are filled with their siblings. The VERY last resort is "expensive rent" kicking out an able-bodied working person. Forgetting that for a moment, self-employed house cleaners get paid $50 an hour. But that's tough work and too many people simply are unwilling to work hard in life.
Elderly can't work low paid jobs which require long hours usually labor intensive. If they have medical problems, it's not going to happen. You can continue to disagree while the cites fill with tents it's a fact that with the increase in rent, and real estate prices we seen an increase in homeless. They just don't come out of thin air. I agree lot of them are abled bodied and can work with Gen X starting to retire many had no retirement saved social security won't cut it when one bed apartments cost $1600 a month people will end up on the streets.
Lot of people who never had kids, or their kids estranged from their elderly parents.
True. As I mentioned in another thread, I don't get DT very often. I saw rows, rows, and more ROWS of tents, and garbage. No F'n way am I going downtown. The place is turning into a mini-Portland.
The worst part is the area called "the Zone", which is on the western edge of downtown & closer to the Capitol. I go to Suns games every so often & never see any tents or trash around Footprint Center, let alone any derelicts to speak of. But the bad areas need to be cleaned up, and I can see how it could be a detriment to downtown if it keeps growing & very little is done. Why cities allow entire blocks to be occupied by all that filth is beyond reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kell490
Only going to get lot worse as lot of people who are on social security are being evicted from trailer parks. Those trailer parks were the last place someone could have little place of their own on social security.
The problem with those places is: in addition to the older people on fixed incomes, there are quite a few bottom of the barrel types who are drug addicts, have criminal records, etc. The phrase "trailer trash" has a lot of truth to it, and it has been that way for as long as I can remember. I actually hope every remaining trailer park is bulldozed and taken over by developers who could turn them into something more aesthetic & valuable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by locolife
It may feel that way but it's bad everywhere, we're not even in the top 10 worst states.
Even so, the problem exists and is growing. In fact, I failed to realize how bad it was until I saw a news report on The Zone, which is becoming another Skid Row. Ignoring it, or saying that other cities have it worse is just kicking the can. Meanwhile, the number of tent encampments continue to increase, and it's a huge blemish, even if it's confined mostly to one area. MN even said he won't go anywhere near downtown because of what he saw. It's going to have a way of discouraging more residents, businesses, and entertainment to the central core unless serious action is taken. The Zone could easily be razed, scrubbed down, and turned into something much more worthwhile if anybody took an interest.
Elderly can't work low paid jobs which require long hours usually labor intensive. If they have medical problems, it's not going to happen. You can continue to disagree while the cites fill with tents it's a fact that with the increase in rent, and real estate prices we seen an increase in homeless. They just don't come out of thin air. I agree lot of them are abled bodied and can work with Gen X starting to retire many had no retirement saved social security won't cut it when one bed apartments cost $1600 a month people will end up on the streets.
Lot of people who never had kids, or their kids estranged from their elderly parents.
You continue to hone in on specific scenarios. Sure, high rent might kick out some people into a homeless situation. But that does NOT mean they are in the encampment. Don't believe me, ask ASU: "In other words, an estimated 12 percent of the United States' homeless population, or close to 83,000 people, is unsheltered and chronically homeless." Read all about it here https://popcenter.asu.edu/content/ho...-encampments-0 that's 12%. Does that sound like a grandma's rent going up to $1600 and getting booted into a tent in 110-degree summer weather?
And the ASU study goes on to say the obvious: "A significant number of transients living in encampments are addicted to drugs or alcohol, and a sizable portion are also mentally ill ("dually diagnosed")." In other words, I'm right. Because that is what our medical doctor's son said when he volunteered to take care of people on the street. He is also against building low-cost housing for the homeless. After all, how on earth can someone who is strung out on drugs and mentally ill going to take care of a home? They need to build mental health and drug addiction clinics and mandate people to get off the streets. Raise my taxes.
You continue to hone in on specific scenarios. Sure, high rent might kick out some people into a homeless situation. But that does NOT mean they are in the encampment. Don't believe me, ask ASU: "In other words, an estimated 12 percent of the United States' homeless population, or close to 83,000 people, is unsheltered and chronically homeless." Read all about it here https://popcenter.asu.edu/content/ho...-encampments-0 that's 12%. Does that sound like a grandma's rent going up to $1600 and getting booted into a tent in 110-degree summer weather?
And the ASU study goes on to say the obvious: "A significant number of transients living in encampments are addicted to drugs or alcohol, and a sizable portion are also mentally ill ("dually diagnosed")." In other words, I'm right. Because that is what our medical doctor's son said when he volunteered to take care of people on the street. He is also against building low-cost housing for the homeless. After all, how on earth can someone who is strung out on drugs and mentally ill going to take care of a home? They need to build mental health and drug addiction clinics and mandate people to get off the streets. Raise my taxes.
I agree with you that providing homes for people who are on drugs and mentally ill is a bad idea and complete waste of money. Don’t understand why you think state and government blowing through our taxes on ideas like this, justify raising taxes for blowing through even more of our money.
I’ve seen the most vile and filthy camps while living near Olympia. These encampments were beyond bad and it was stomach turning to see mountains of trash and feces on the street. Yes, these people absolutely need intervention, but it never came. There is no way to justify anyone living out of a cardboard box, but they do.
The first thing that will solve this, is for the leaders to get some backbone and insist that the homeless can either get treatment for their problems and help with getting employment or move along. There is nothing mean about an approach like this, when people are reduced to living in a box and using the street as a toilet, they need immediate help that could save their life.
I think the courts will agree those living on the streets can't dictate where the shelters are placed. There needs to be an area or areas large enough to house 800-1000 but also away from businesses and residential neighborhoods.
The city of Phoenix will need to provide transportation from various locations to/from the shelters. Strong security will be required as well as portable toilets/showers. This will no doubt cost money, but I think the courts might find such shelters acceptable.
Now, I suspect most of those living in the Zone will refuse to use the shelters regardless of services made available. At which point the city can cite who insist on sleeping on the sidewalk. But then what? You can't toss them all in jail. No, but they can be required to work off their fines which might make some decide to leave.
Cal is next door and given the extreme Az summer months... why stay? What I've heard from addicts in recovery is Phoenix is awash in high quality, low cost fentanyl and meth. My guess is that's why addicts are willing to put up with the heat.
The city of Phoenix is at a major crossroad. Companies are showing interest in moving here but they will think twice if areas like the Zone are allowed to grow.
An out-of-control homeless situation like we see in SF, LA and SD won’t fly here. Companies will simply go somewhere else.
I’ve heard people in California pay homeless people to move to Arizona.
Meanwhile Katie Hobbs just vetoed a bill that would have banned tents in public. Certain people love to encourage the destruction in the name of “kindness.”
I’ve heard people in California pay homeless people to move to Arizona.
Meanwhile Katie Hobbs just vetoed a bill that would have banned tents in public. Certain people love to encourage the destruction in the name of “kindness.”
...Maricopa County Superior Court Judge Scott Blaney's order to remove the tents “as soon as is practicable” precedes a trial in the case scheduled for July.
“The City of Phoenix shall maintain its public property in The Zone in a condition free of (a) tents and other makeshift structures in the public rights of way; (b) biohazardous materials including human feces and urine, drug paraphernalia, and other trash; and (c) individuals committing offenses against the public order,” the court order states.
...The city has taken the position that it cannot give people in the encampment citations for violating public camping laws because of federal court decisions that say a municipality cannot criminally cite unhoused people for sleeping on public property if there is nowhere else for them to go. But Blaney said the city is misinterpreting those decisions by assuming that anyone sleeping in a tent is unable to find other shelter. https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...p/70054448007/
Last edited by john3232; 04-01-2023 at 09:19 PM..
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