Phoenix, I love you! (Mesa, Paradise Valley: places to live, cost of living, shop)

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by markeg

Where else can we walk around in January in the 60’s or 70’s?

Just about anywhere in southern CA. They have a similar climate to ours during the winter months. When it's 70 in L.A., it's usually right around the same temperature here. When they have rain, we usually get their leftovers the following day. Many other locations in the southern tier of states have decent winter temperatures, and Florida is often the warmest of the bunch. A person doesn't always have to go to Phoenix just for better weather.

Originally Posted by markeg

I’ll take it! Summers are hot, we we stay indoors in the air conditioning. It works for me!

Being cooped up indoors wouldn't be for me, nor a lot of others. I like to be out & about, and that's why I reserve most of my vacation time for the summer months. Arizona's White Mountains, Colorado's San Juan Mountains, or just about anywhere in the northern Rockies are my ideal summer getaways. I'd go crazy if I had to stay in Phoenix all summer.

[pathrunner]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Just about anywhere in southern CA. They have a similar climate to ours during the winter months. When it's 70 in L.A., it's usually right around the same temperature here. When they have rain, we usually get their leftovers the following day. Many other locations in the southern tier of states have decent winter temperatures, and Florida is often the warmest of the bunch. A person doesn't always have to go to Phoenix just for better weather.

Unfortunately, northern Alabama isn't one of those places. It's at the foot of the Appalachian Range, and while we are currently having very warm weather (after -1 degree real feel and snow last week), it's a freaky pattern and not the norm. I don't like being cooped up in winter thinking about how great the winters are in AZ.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by pathrunner

Unfortunately, northern Alabama isn't one of those places. It's at the foot of the Appalachian Range, and while we are currently having very warm weather (after -1 degree real feel and snow last week), it's a freaky pattern and not the norm. I don't like being cooped up in winter thinking about how great the winters are in AZ.

Lots of locations aren't pleasant during the winter months. Alabama wouldn't be ideal for me either (not only because of the weather, but for other reasons). Point I was making was that southern CA has nice winters, similar to ours in fact. The best thing about the coastal areas of southern CA is their summers are decent, and much better for being outdoors than Phoenix is. If anybody wants to move somewhere specifically for the climate, that would be the place.

[pathrunner]

Yep, I grew up there.

[Taz22]

Originally Posted by Maroon197

What percentage of the metro Phoenix population lives in one of those old, hyper expensive neighborhoods with trees? 1%? Probably not even that. Most people (millions of residents) live on treeless suburban style streets. Most parks are also relatively shadeless, and no one wants to get in the car to drive to someplace where you might find a handful of shade trees.

That angle of the sun argument is also hilarious - the sun is demonstrably more intense in Phoenix than in northern states, and it remains very intense all winter long. 74 degrees in direct midday sun is hot, especially on Christmas Day. Those are summer temperatures in most normal cities. Oh, and there was a poor air quality alert on Christmas as well. Tis the season.

I have to agree, most of Phoenix is tract hell that goes on for miles. Developers have built and built and to see any interesting desert scenery, you have to drive a long way out. I completely don’t get anyone who can live surrounded by miles of treeless tracts in a brown desert that is frequently over 100 degrees.

Ten or twenty years ago, Phoenix at least had a good infrastructure, sports, restaurants, air conditioned shopping, but all the homeless camps that have appeared overnight, have really detracted from Phoenix being a desirable place to live. Coupled with lack of rain, bad air and unrelenting heat, there are better places out there.

I was chatting with a friend who lives in Paradise Valley, recently it seems his neighbors sold their home for 5 million. The question is why, if I had the money to buy a very expensive house, quality of life would be high on my list. Phoenix has a lot of man made attractions, but with the heat, overcrowding and now homeless camps, Carmel CA, Vail CO, Sanibel Island or Palm Beach would be way higher on the desirable places to live list.

[john3232]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Lots of locations aren't pleasant during the winter months. Alabama wouldn't be ideal for me either (not only because of the weather, but for other reasons). Point I was making was that southern CA has nice winters, similar to ours in fact. The best thing about the coastal areas of southern CA is their summers are decent, and much better for being outdoors than Phoenix is. If anybody wants to move somewhere specifically for the climate, that would be the place.

Cal has the weather and assuming you bought 2 or 3 decades ago it's all good. My nephew just graduated from University of California, Berkeley and got a job with Master Card in San Francisco. He has a nice girlfriend who is also bright. My guess is combined they can earn a good 160-170 which gets you nowhere in Northern Cal. But they could have a very nice life in say Tempe or Chandler assuming they can earn a similar salary.

I mentioned before I sold a property in San Francisco early 2019. Each couple interested the home was earning over 1M a year. The couple who bought the house said yes on a Wed and the next day slapped down a 950k deposit. Who has that kind of money? Those in the tech industry, financial world or flying over from Hong Kong with deep pockets.

[pathrunner]

Originally Posted by Taz22

I have to agree, most of Phoenix is tract hell that goes on for miles. Developers have built and built and to see any interesting desert scenery, you have to drive a long way out. I completely don’t get anyone who can live surrounded by miles of treeless tracts in a brown desert that is frequently over 100 degrees.

Ten or twenty years ago, Phoenix at least had a good infrastructure, sports, restaurants, air conditioned shopping, but all the homeless camps that have appeared overnight, have really detracted from Phoenix being a desirable place to live. Coupled with lack of rain, bad air and unrelenting heat, there are better places out there.

I was chatting with a friend who lives in Paradise Valley, recently it seems his neighbors sold their home for 5 million. The question is why, if I had the money to buy a very expensive house, quality of life would be high on my list. Phoenix has a lot of man made attractions, but with the heat, overcrowding and now homeless camps, Carmel CA, Vail CO, Sanibel Island or Palm Beach would be way higher on the desirable places to live list.

Sanibel Island?? The place destroyed by a recent hurricane?!

I'd take Paradise Valley over Carmel (too remote from a big city), Vail (again, too remote from a big city), or Palm Beach (No on FL altogether, too crowded). There is still quite a bit of quality of life in Paradise Valley, and likely always will be.

[OUgrad09]

Originally Posted by Taz22

I have to agree, most of Phoenix is tract hell that goes on for miles. Developers have built and built and to see any interesting desert scenery, you have to drive a long way out. I completely don’t get anyone who can live surrounded by miles of treeless tracts in a brown desert that is frequently over 100 degrees.

Ten or twenty years ago, Phoenix at least had a good infrastructure, sports, restaurants, air conditioned shopping, but all the homeless camps that have appeared overnight, have really detracted from Phoenix being a desirable place to live. Coupled with lack of rain, bad air and unrelenting heat, there are better places out there.

I was chatting with a friend who lives in Paradise Valley, recently it seems his neighbors sold their home for 5 million. The question is why, if I had the money to buy a very expensive house, quality of life would be high on my list. Phoenix has a lot of man made attractions, but with the heat, overcrowding and now homeless camps, Carmel CA, Vail CO, Sanibel Island or Palm Beach would be way higher on the desirable places to live list.

It just depends on your life stage and what’s important for the particular person/family. There’s no right or wrong answer. If someone is paying $5m to live in Arizona, there is a reason for that. Different places are desirable for different reasons. For example, we don’t want to be driving in the snow in Colorado and pay ridiculous real estate costs in Carmel, so both those would be automatic non-starters for us. Of course if you don’t mind the snow and have tons of money to burn, then by all means. We personally can’t stand Florida. Phoenix isn’t for everyone, but it clearly makes a lot of sense for many, as Maricopa is the fastest growing county in the US.

[Taz22]

Originally Posted by pathrunner

Sanibel Island?? The place destroyed by a recent hurricane?!

I'd take Paradise Valley over Carmel (too remote from a big city), Vail (again, too remote from a big city), or Palm Beach (No on FL altogether, too crowded). There is still quite a bit of quality of life in Paradise Valley, and likely always will be.

Oh no, I meant to write Cape Coral, but was thinking how nice Sanibel used to be. Anyway, you’re right, PV is a beauty spot, but it’s surrounded by Phoenix, and the 1% who live in PV still have to deal with creeping urban blight and brutal summers.

Florida is crowded, but after 15+ years of living in Phoenix, I remember how many snowbirds would come in and jam up the freeways, so I’d have to leave early, to compensate for sitting in traffic.

Phoenix works for some, but it’s a transient city, a lot of people I knew moved on.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by Taz22

I have to agree, most of Phoenix is tract hell that goes on for miles. Developers have built and built and to see any interesting desert scenery, you have to drive a long way out. I completely don’t get anyone who can live surrounded by miles of treeless tracts in a brown desert that is frequently over 100 degrees.

Ten or twenty years ago, Phoenix at least had a good infrastructure, sports, restaurants, air conditioned shopping, but all the homeless camps that have appeared overnight, have really detracted from Phoenix being a desirable place to live. Coupled with lack of rain, bad air and unrelenting heat, there are better places out there.

I was chatting with a friend who lives in Paradise Valley, recently it seems his neighbors sold their home for 5 million. The question is why, if I had the money to buy a very expensive house, quality of life would be high on my list. Phoenix has a lot of man made attractions, but with the heat, overcrowding and now homeless camps, Carmel CA, Vail CO, Sanibel Island or Palm Beach would be way higher on the desirable places to live list.

You mean America's 5th largest city has "man made attractions"? Please outline all the examples of America's big cities which don't have man-made attractions. Wait, you're saying a large and growing city has homeless issues and strain on infrastructure? You're blowing our minds.

Is it really that hard to understand why people would like a warm, sunny, and relatively affordable place to live? With large nature preserves and mountain views all around, access to large municipal parks (including one of the largest in the country), endless entertainment options (including MLB spring training, the PGAs largest golf tournament, annual bowl games, super bowl on regular rotation and on and on...), an ever expanding array of cultural amenities ranging from top rated dining options to America's largest art walk?

By the way, the tract home developments you mention, are filled with amenities like this which families love. Is that really so hard to understand? These aren't being built because there's no demand for them.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.8627...!7i6720!8i3360