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There are a lot of myths about Phoenix educational system. This thread is for parents who are interested or concerned about the educational opportunities in the Phoenix area. I know its difficult to find facts when people just include their opinion. This is fcorrales80's well researched and factual post. Unfortunately great posts like this get lost during arguments in long threads. Please thank fcorrales80
When looking at school performance in Arizona, one must account for the dynamics at work with regards to the school rankings. Arizona uses one of the most stringent forms or self-evaluation and include schools on Indian Reservations (no other state does this). Schools perform bad in Arizona because of the huge migrant population of illegal Hispanics (which may soon change due to laws). Those student place horribly in ALL tests given because of a lack of basic education because they know very little English yet are being tested in this language. Those Arizona students who are citizens (white, black, hispanic, asian, etc.) are not failing like those groups that bring down the ratings. And remember, Phoenix area schools actually out-perform the rest of the rural state and schools on poor Indian reservations and rural counties. Mesa PS has the highest graduation rate in the nation and many Phoenix schools have average SAT test scores that are well above the national average. Some more info:
"Both South and North Canyon high schools made Newsweek's 2007 list of the top 1,351 high schools in the country, based on how well schools prepare students to excel in college. Also on the list: Paradise Valley's Pinnacle, Scottsdale's Chaparral and Desert Mountain, Glendale Union's Sunnyslope, and Chandler's Hamilton and Chandler High. " List of schools with exceptional academic programs
"Greater Phoenix schools rank above national average
An important issue for residents in any location is the quality of education. The table below shows
the high school and unified districts that serve GPEC’s member cities. Arizona schools have[/SIZE]
adopted a new program that focuses on raising standards, requiring more discipline and[/SIZE]
expecting greater achievement.[/SIZE]
•A statewide dropout prevention program was established in 1987[/SIZE]
•In 1987, high school graduation requirements in math and science were also[/SIZE]
strengthened[/SIZE] •The majority of Greater Phoenix school districts rank well above national averages on[/SIZE] standardized achievement tests[/SIZE]
•A number of the districts offer extensive “magnet” and other programs to help keep[/SIZE]
education relevant and interesting[/SIZE]
•These districts provide specialized courses in career and vocational fields, articulating [/SIZE]
programs with the community colleges[/SIZE]
•Magnet programs include: aeronautics and aerospace, visual arts, performing arts,[/SIZE]
agribusiness, computer studies, international baccalaureate, applied science and [/SIZE]
engineering, and 21st century leadership[/SIZE]"
Parents also need to keep in mind that No Child Left Behind was also enacted and standards for the children and schools across the whole country are the same. I personally didn't like NCLB but it is alive and well and it is followed to a T, if schools do not follow it, they get no funding from the government.
Second in highest student-teacher ratio. Utah is first.
Tied with Nevada for fastest growing student population.
Ranks 27th in the nation for average teacher salaries and is $4,769 below the national average.
Ranks next to last in per pupil expenditure. Utah ranks last.
Education Week's annual report, Quality Counts 2008, looks at education issues in all of the states. A portion of Quality Counts 2008 includes an examination of K-12 education spending in each state. Some important highlights from this report include:
Arizona ranks 49th out of the 50 states in the amount spent per student
Arizona expended $6232 per student which is $2741 below the national average expenditure of $8973 per student
Arizona would have to increase per pupil spending by 44% to move to an amount equal to the national average expenditure per student
The cost to move Arizona to the national average is estimated to exceed $2.7 billion
I agree that there are a few good schools in Arizona however, only when compared with other Arizona Schools. We are well below the national average regardless of what you may have read once or twice. I've had the opportunity, by working within Az School Districts, to see first hand where we rank within the Nation.....it's not pretty. So yes, if Arizona is your only option as far as education you can find a decent school however, nationally speaking, if you are looking to provide your child with more oportunities and a better chance at succeeding there are 49 superior states to choose from.
Second in highest student-teacher ratio. Utah is first.
Tied with Nevada for fastest growing student population.
Ranks 27th in the nation for average teacher salaries and is $4,769 below the national average.
Ranks next to last in per pupil expenditure. Utah ranks last.
Education Week's annual report, Quality Counts 2008, looks at education issues in all of the states. A portion of Quality Counts 2008 includes an examination of K-12 education spending in each state. Some important highlights from this report include:
Arizona ranks 49th out of the 50 states in the amount spent per student
Arizona expended $6232 per student which is $2741 below the national average expenditure of $8973 per student
Arizona would have to increase per pupil spending by 44% to move to an amount equal to the national average expenditure per student
The cost to move Arizona to the national average is estimated to exceed $2.7 billion
This one I do know a little something about!
Some states requite students make their own purchases for supplies, paper, pencils, etc.
In Arizona, No child will pay for their education. Every child is entitled to a free education, so therefore, no student is required to spend one cent on supplies. If the child cannot afford to make any purchases the school district and state will pick up the tab. Next time you have to buy supplies you can challenege the school and they will not make you pay for supplies. It is Arizona Law that all children are entitled to a fre education.
Some states make you purchase your own supplies and therefore monies used for supplies goes towards other things and programs. Arizona may have more money to spend on children if they didn't have to spend so much on supplies. Then you have the issue of how much out of pocket teachers spend and we won't even go there.
Some states requite students make their own purchases for supplies, paper, pencils, etc.
In Arizona, No child will pay for their education. Every child is entitled to a free education, so therefore, no student is required to spend one cent on supplies. If the child cannot afford to make any purchases the school district and state will pick up the tab. Next time you have to buy supplies you can challenege the school and they will not make you pay for supplies. It is Arizona Law that all children are entitled to a fre education.
Some states make you purchase your own supplies and therefore monies used for supplies goes towards other things and programs. Arizona may have more money to spend on children if they didn't have to spend so much on supplies. Then you have the issue of how much out of pocket teachers spend and we won't even go there.
Yes, this is true. And a good point. Although most of us are asked to do so if we can and feel odd if we don't. I always buy the supplies they ask for. I have never had them not ask either. Maybe it was just our school, but it was the public school. I know the charters ask a lot. It's a nice thing for people who can't afford it. I have 3 kids so it gets a little pricey.
Second in highest student-teacher ratio. Utah is first.
Tied with Nevada for fastest growing student population.
Ranks 27th in the nation for average teacher salaries and is $4,769 below the national average.
Ranks next to last in per pupil expenditure. Utah ranks last.
Education Week's annual report, Quality Counts 2008, looks at education issues in all of the states. A portion of Quality Counts 2008 includes an examination of K-12 education spending in each state. Some important highlights from this report include:
Arizona ranks 49th out of the 50 states in the amount spent per student
Arizona expended $6232 per student which is $2741 below the national average expenditure of $8973 per student
Arizona would have to increase per pupil spending by 44% to move to an amount equal to the national average expenditure per student
The cost to move Arizona to the national average is estimated to exceed $2.7 billion
Again, the original post acknowledges the rankings you have put forth and explains many of those negative findings. I would like to see what the teacher-student ratios, teacher salaries and exam scores when accounting for the non-immigrant/Native American reservation student population in the state and the Phoenix metropolitan area.
When other states are not accounting for their Native American reservation population and Arizona is, it's not difficult to understand why the rankings are skewed.
Also, the average amount of money spent per student will also seem skewed when there is an exploding population of immigrant students. It's going to provide a false impression to parents moving to Phoenix who is likely going to put their children in a non-immigrant/non-Indian reservation school in the metropolitan area. That's the reason for this thread. You have parents who are interested in moving to Phoenix and the states overall and all-ecompassing statistics don't necessarily reflect the quality of the schools they are likely to send their children to in the metro.
Parents out there who actually want the truth may appreciate hearing it rather than being bombarded with random quotes and Arizona only based statistics.
Bottom Line.....if you choose to remain in Arizona become very involved in your childs education because this will help tremendously! Do your research and request the 5-year grad rate for the HS's you are considering. Speak one on one with the Superintendant if possible and know the principal. Also, many districts provide state funded tutoring after school and durring the summer so if you take full advantage and become extremely active in your child's educational process you will offset the major faults within Arizona's educational systems.
This argument goes on everywhere in Arizona: Our Opinion: Arizona's education systems flunk out
It's been a topic here for a long time as well. Will money help? Do we have bad education in AZ? Or is it all the mexicans fault? I'm really sick of it. I have kids in school and it's not like you can't tell what needs a little fixing when your there. I will ask you again, do you have kids in the school system? You can't blame everything on the mexican population either, thats just a easy excuse! Oh, I guess I should have thrown in the Indian kids too! I include them in the kids that should get a good education as well. I don't think it's just the white kids that should be the subject of a good education. We all live here and if these kids aren't getting a good education then it will show in our state. We live here with everybody. It all matters azriver., every kid counts they will all grow up to be part of Arizona.
This argument goes on everywhere in Arizona: Our Opinion: Arizona's education systems flunk out
It's been a topic here for a long time as well. Will money help? Do we have bad education in AZ? Or is it all the mexicans fault? I'm really sick of it. I have kids in school and it's not like you can't tell what needs a little fixing when your there. I will ask you again, do you have kids in the school system? You can't blame everything on the mexican population either, thats just a easy excuse!
Everything wrong in PHX can be blamed on illegals, light rail, or a combination of the two.
Last edited by cbassnasty; 07-02-2008 at 10:25 AM..
Reason: diction
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