Is it a myth that Phx metro is cheaper? (Phoenix: how much, job market)

[joninaz]

- Housing is much more affordable here than in the Bay area and any other coastal area (LA, OC, SD). Try finding even a small house with a yard in those markets and compare with PHX. If you want to live within 10 miles of the ocean in CA, an older house will cost in the 7 figure range. A decent condo, jammed in with as many others as zoning will allow, is at least 500K, and that's a starter place.

- For those not looking to buy, what's the rent for an avg. 1 bedroom in the bay area? I'm going to guess it's twice the price, at least. My friends in CA are renting small 1 bedroom apartments for about $1,800/month, which is the same payment for a $250K house in AZ, where you can get a decent house, yard, etc. for the same price.

- Car insurance isn't that much different. It all comes down to calculations. Contra Costa might be cheaper than PHX, but it's also cheaper than downtown LA or Southern San Diego.

- Cable rates shouldn't be that different. They have loads of packages and if you tell them you are leaving, they'll cut the price considerably. Especially if you tell them you're thinking about DirecTV, which is aggressive and priced the same nationally.

- Water rates hit you more if you maintain a higher rate of use. Green grass and a pool cost more. But no pool and native landscaping should be a lot less.

- Same with power. Newer houses are usually built with efficiency in mind. Same with newer apartments. If you have a bigger place and/or older place, you pay more to keep it warm/cool in AZ. I've got an older home built before we got more savvy about these things, so my bills are too high and probably higher than in CA, during summer months. Otherwise they drop 2/3rds for the rest of the year, inching up a bit when it's cold.

- Don't get me wrong. I love CA. The best deals vs. AZ I can see are food costs. The avg. gorcer costs aren't that much different, but in CA you can get really high end stuff at farmer's markets and often tasteir fare at divey ethnic markets.

- What bites one's butt in CA is the "other" expenses. Car registration. Smog checks. Tickets. If a meter runs out, it costs a small fortune. Parking is a chess game and it's not unusual to dish out $5-10 just to arrive somewhere. Ten bucks, twice a week, is a thousand a year. These little things add up fast. Cover charges for no name bands, overpriced drinks, etc.

- On the flip side, one can go out in PHX and not spend much. Cheap drinks. Free food buffets. I might have spent $5 to park a couple of times in one year. Otherwise, there's not a single paid lot or meter in Scottsdale. We can also hit many places wearing shorts and Ts, not caring about the latest belt.

Just saying.

[ibarrio]

A friend from back home visited me over the holiday weekend. He asked what I paid in Taxes. I said $1100. He said no, per quarter? I said no, the whole year....LOL. He pays $500 per month in property taxes (Palmdale, CA...not exactly Beverly Hills)

[SOON2BNSURPRISE]

Cheaper for me in AZ than the cost on the coast of CA in every respect. I have also been interviewing for jobs in the area and none pay less than $60,000 a year. Getting kind of tired of spending half the week at the hospital in CA and half the week in AZ. All I know is gas is cheaper, our phone, cable, and internet are bundled together and cheaper than in CA, life is more livable in AZ than in CA for us.

As far as the job market, just found an interesting footnote. One source says that it can take a month for every $10,000 in yearly income to find a job. For a job that pays $70,000 a year the job search could take 7 months.

[dc1225]

Originally Posted by time4me

I just moved to the Phoenix metro area two months ago. I really like the area, despite the heat. But, I am struggling over the cost of living and the low salaries. What's up with this? I was expecting to be better off
than in California but it is really more expensive. The cost of car insurance, utilities, cable service is higher, I am shocked. I have been looking for work and am shocked at how low the wages are. How do people afford to live here? The people who had told me I would find it better here financially have lived here off and on over the years, so maybe it is how it used to be?

to me it comes down to job and salary...housing is cheaper, that is given but you need to look at the average salary for exact same position in phx vs. san fran...and guess which city pays more?

This is precisely why I am waiting for a position to open up with my company so I can transfer w/o taking a paycut.

[time4me]

I was offered a job here at $9 an hour for customer service for a major company. The average temp job here is around $12 an hour. In the Bay Area it is $18 an hour. I have never even seen a job for $9 an hour for a full time position that required 3 months of training. That is shocking. Car ins is double here than the Bay Area. Because of being closer to the border. You pay a lot more to keep your place air conditioned here than in the Bay Area. I have been homeowner since 1976 and never paid $400 like I did in July here. My average utility bill was 100 a month for a 2400 sq ft home. It is much more expensive to use water here. Average bill in Sacto is $40 a month for unlimited water use. Cox Communications charges every time you call with a problem on the internet and it is not cheap. I never had fees like that tacked on with Astound or Comcast Broadband. Food is really about the same in cost. Rent is cheaper, but not enough to make up for such low wages. What I don't understand is why there is nothing being done about the low income here? How can people get ahead?

[Tailofdogma]

This is my breakdown so far on the cost of living- Bay Area VS Phoenix

Housing- Obviously, housing is cheaper in Phoenix against California. My current apartment in Glendale is almost exactly the same Sqft as my old apartment in San Bruno. I pay half the rent. On the other hand, I no longer have a few of the bay. Also, what the hell is renter's tax and why am I paying this crap?

Electric- In California, I paid 30 a month to keep the lights on. I don't have a bill for here yet, but I'm expecting that to triple. (i already miss 65-68 degrees 9 months of the year, and 55-58 the other 3 months.)

Gas- Way cheaper here, naturally.

Car Insurance/DMV- Slightly more expensive in Arizona.

Food-No difference from California. Produce however, was slightly cheaper and better in California.

Cable/Phone/Internet- No difference from California.

Taxes- Again, stupid renter's tax. Sales tax here is higher than San Francisco or San Mateo counties. Lower than Alameda county (East bay close to the water).

Mass transit is of course, much worse than the bay area.

The wages are also much lower and seems to be a really high number of crappy jobs here.

But, with housing being the biggest expense, it is still cheaper to live in Phoenix instead of (at least) the bay area, but not by as much as you would think.

[time4me]

I agree with your breakdown. What I don't get is why people who live here are willing to accept such low pay. It is really not that much cheaper and yet the wages are a lot lower. Why isn't there more in the news or in the paper about the low wages and high cost of living? It seems like more people such be contacting their elected officials about demanding better wages from these large companies. Are these big companies here because they can get away with it? I am just shocked that there is not a revolt or campaign by the middle class for higher wages. When you see that cost of living is not that much better here then companies should pay better. These are big companies that are paying so low, not small mom and pop shops.

[dc1225]

Originally Posted by time4me

I agree with your breakdown. What I don't get is why people who live here are willing to accept such low pay. It is really not that much cheaper and yet the wages are a lot lower. Why isn't there more in the news or in the paper about the low wages and high cost of living? It seems like more people such be contacting their elected officials about demanding better wages from these large companies. Are these big companies here because they can get away with it? I am just shocked that there is not a revolt or campaign by the middle class for higher wages. When you see that cost of living is not that much better here then companies should pay better. These are big companies that are paying so low, not small mom and pop shops.

its called desperation....i don't think they wanna get paid that low but that's what's out there my friend. Also, if they revolt, businesses won't come to do businesses anymore...imagine a bad job market getting worse?

[fcorrales80]

Originally Posted by time4me

I agree with your breakdown. What I don't get is why people who live here are willing to accept such low pay. It is really not that much cheaper and yet the wages are a lot lower. Why isn't there more in the news or in the paper about the low wages and high cost of living? It seems like more people such be contacting their elected officials about demanding better wages from these large companies. Are these big companies here because they can get away with it? I am just shocked that there is not a revolt or campaign by the middle class for higher wages. When you see that cost of living is not that much better here then companies should pay better. These are big companies that are paying so low, not small mom and pop shops.

I don't think you are getting the point. You are over generalizing. Most people do not make 9/hr. in Phoenix, if you do, that is just awful and I feel for you, but the only person I know making $9.50 an hour is my 16 year old cousin who works at In-N-Out Burger. My secretary makes $15.20 an hour (this is her second year at Phoenix College), our courier makes $10 an hour and is tipped (LOL), my best friend's 22 year old boyfriend makes $22 an hour as a security guard and is in school...maybe your particular job just, well, SUCKS.

[Tailofdogma]

Originally Posted by fcorrales80

I don't think you are getting the point. You are over generalizing. Most people do not make 9/hr. in Phoenix, if you do, that is just awful and I feel for you, but the only person I know making $9.50 an hour is my 16 year old cousin who works at In-N-Out Burger. My secretary makes $15.20 an hour (this is her second year at Phoenix College), our courier makes $10 an hour and is tipped (LOL), my best friend's 22 year old boyfriend makes $22 an hour as a security guard and is in school...maybe your particular job just, well, SUCKS.

Obviously, most people do not make 9 bucks an hour here, I'm not sure that was the other poster's point. However, any cursory glance at the major job boards suggests the numbers you have posted are not exactly typical. The vast majority of security positions I have seen posted range from 11-15 dollars an hour. Admin Assistant positions seem to range from 25-32, making your secretary pretty well paid. Additionally, the waiting period for benefits seems to be, on average 60 days longer than it generally was in California.

I don't mean to quibble (too much) but as someone spending hours a day waiting for a decent quality job to be posted in any number of places, I do not believe your figures are typical of what is out there.