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Merchants on Mill Avenue have said it for years, many folks in Tempe have long believed it and now the American Planning Association has recognized it: Mill Avenue is a great street.
The Washington, D.C.-based association dedicated to community planning announced Wednesday that Mill Avenue has been designated one of the 10 Great Streets for 2008 through its Great Places in America program.
And read the comments. This is another example of the same people patting themselves on the back and calling a marketing press release "news".
Mill Street is worthless to anyone with transportation. It USED to be a great street, just like Downtown Scottsdale USED to be a great area. I haven't visited either area for years because chain stores moved in and "cleaned it up". Why would I want to visit a chain store when I can get anything I wanted on line and without the hassle of parking?
Cities should be banned from listening to developers. I think most Tempe residents are mildly grateful that chain store merchants still "allow" festivals there. Most are still resentful Mill avenue chased out the really great stores like Changing Hands and great bars and restaurants. Mill avenue is bland now, any street USA.
I'm sad to see Scottsdale has duplicated the same formula for their downtown area = ghost town. But that's not unusual for Scottsdale. I had given Tempe more points for smarts.
And read the comments. This is another example of the same people patting themselves on the back and calling a marketing press release "news".
Mill Street is worthless to anyone with transportation. It USED to be a great street, just like Downtown Scottsdale USED to be a great area. I haven't visited either area for years because chain stores moved in and "cleaned it up". Why would I want to visit a chain store when I can get anything I wanted on line and without the hassle of parking?
Cities should be banned from listening to developers. I think most Tempe residents are mildly grateful that chain store merchants still "allow" festivals there. Most are still resentful Mill avenue chased out the really great stores like Changing Hands and great bars and restaurants. Mill avenue is bland now, any street USA.
I'm sad to see Scottsdale has duplicated the same formula for their downtown area = ghost town. But that's not unusual for Scottsdale. I had given Tempe more points for smarts.
You must not have been to either place lately. Mill Ave. was getting a bit too chain-centric, but several pulled out and moved to the Marketplace. Regardless, it has lots of locally owned eateries, shops, bars, etc. - one of the best concentrations in AZ and has some real gems... Rula Bula, Cafe Boa, Chuckbox, Restaurant Mexico, La Bocca, etc.
Old Town barely has any chains... a Starbucks, La Salsa and Fuddruckers and a couple of other eateries. On the flip side, it has a 100-odd unique restaurants, taverns, nightclubs and shops. The whole Southbridge development actually forbid chains.
So can you explain this formula you speak of?
And name any other places in Metro PHX with a similar concentration of offerings and no chains?
I agree joinaz. While Mill Ave does have it's chains, it definitely has a good mix of unique shops and restaurants that you won't find elsewhere. I don't see it as a place full of chains as the first person is making sound like.
Also...why go to Mill and hassle with parking vs buying online? Because a lot of people, including myself, still enjoy to interact with other people, people watch, walk around, sit at a cafe, etc...not just sit cooped up in the house.
Um...I think the point is that Mill Ave is a mere shadow of what it ought to be. I'm a big fan of Rula Bula and a couple other joints myself on Mill, but I'd hardly call Mill Ave a "Great Street." Perhaps when comparing to any other Phoenix street it's a cultural mecca, but compared to most of the American streets that Mill is trying to be, it's still quite low on the pole.
If I may:
Quote:
"It's great to be recognized nationally for what we knew locally," Nancy Hormann, president of the Mill Avenue District, said.
She said that Mill was being recognized because "it's real."
"Mill Avenue has an excellent, authentic urban environment and it's not a mall," she said. "It's a great downtown street that is a genuine community gathering place."
Now obviously it's her job to be a booster for Mill, but coming from anyone else I would conclude that they had never been outside Arizona. Mill Ave, real? Urban? Not a mall? A genuine community gathering place, huh? If not for ASU, Mill would be unable to support itself. In the summer it's almost a ghost town. Again, by Phoenix standards it still seems to maintain more business than most streets, but sees far less action than the numerous shopping malls around the valley, indoor or outdoor (which is ironic because for a while there that's what it was trying to be.
Mill desperately wants to be something it's not, and thinks it can fake it's way to getting there. It can't. It was on it's way once upon a time, but the whole shift to chain outfits while running out the old haunts (Long Wong's, Changing Hands...even places just off Mill like Bandersnatch) set it back quite a bit. It could rise again, but it would take a concerted community...not corporate...effort. That's something that Phoenix, Tempe and other surrounding cities seem to be in short supply of.
I spent 14 years in the Valley trying to help push along various worthy community projects, but the majority seems only to want strip malls, shopping malls, sprawling low density residential areas and highways. None of these are conducive to having a "Great Street."
Nevertheless, good luck, Tempe. Hope you get it right eventually.
Mill Avenue has lost many of its businesses to the more suburban Tempe Marketplace, which is near the connection of the 202 & 101 freeways. I realize this was likely done to make it more accessible to freeways (and give it more of a "mall" environment) ... but the result is an increased number of vacant storefronts along Mill Avenue.
There used to be a very nice multi screen Harkins movie theater in the heart of downtown Tempe ... but now it is closed down, and has relocated to the Marketplace. Nearby shops & eateries have also moved out. A developer is planning to build hotels and condos along this section ... but thanks to the sluggish economy, those plans have been delayed. Meanwhile, the theater is a big empty shell, and the nearby shops are becoming eyesores. If Mill Avenue/downtown Tempe really wants to continue to be a thriving area, they had better get busy and do something about all these vacant buildings!
[quote]If Mill Avenue/downtown Tempe really wants to continue to be a thriving area, they had better get busy and do something about all these vacant buildings![/QUOTE]
Speaking of vacant buildings... Does anyone know what that building is on Rio Salado and Mill Avenue on the south east corner?
The Hayden Ferry Lakeside Center sits right across from it.
It looks like an old wheat mill or something and it is a HUGE eyesore.
Speaking of vacant buildings... Does anyone know what that building is on Rio Salado and Mill Avenue on the south east corner?
The Hayden Ferry Lakeside Center sits right across from it.
It looks like an old wheat mill or something and it is a HUGE eyesore.
It's the old Hayden Flour Mill, which was THE employment center of Tempe approximately a century ago. In fact, Mill Avenue was named as such because of this flour mill. I agree that it's an eyesore. I don't know what's going on with that site, but it has been vacant for many years ... and there was a fire that caused extensive damage to it a little while ago. There were supposedly some plans to turn it into a museum, or even loft apartments, but I haven't heard about (or seen) any kind of development on this site at all. I work in downtown Tempe, so I try to keep up with what's going on there.
Last edited by Valley Native; 10-10-2008 at 12:52 AM..
Um...I think the point is that Mill Ave is a mere shadow of what it ought to be. I'm a big fan of Rula Bula and a couple other joints myself on Mill, but I'd hardly call Mill Ave a "Great Street." Perhaps when comparing to any other Phoenix street it's a cultural mecca, but compared to most of the American streets that Mill is trying to be, it's still quite low on the pole.
If I may:
Now obviously it's her job to be a booster for Mill, but coming from anyone else I would conclude that they had never been outside Arizona. Mill Ave, real? Urban? Not a mall? A genuine community gathering place, huh? If not for ASU, Mill would be unable to support itself. In the summer it's almost a ghost town. Again, by Phoenix standards it still seems to maintain more business than most streets, but sees far less action than the numerous shopping malls around the valley, indoor or outdoor (which is ironic because for a while there that's what it was trying to be.
Mill desperately wants to be something it's not, and thinks it can fake it's way to getting there. It can't. It was on it's way once upon a time, but the whole shift to chain outfits while running out the old haunts (Long Wong's, Changing Hands...even places just off Mill like Bandersnatch) set it back quite a bit. It could rise again, but it would take a concerted community...not corporate...effort. That's something that Phoenix, Tempe and other surrounding cities seem to be in short supply of.
I spent 14 years in the Valley trying to help push along various worthy community projects, but the majority seems only to want strip malls, shopping malls, sprawling low density residential areas and highways. None of these are conducive to having a "Great Street."
Nevertheless, good luck, Tempe. Hope you get it right eventually.
This has happened everywhere. It's the nature of the game.
Santa Monica's 3rd street Promenade was awesome - almost 100% local shops. Great books stores, music stores, bars. But once it became popular, the chains moved in.
Times Square in NY was a nasty mix of sex, media, sex and hookers. It was horrible. Now it's Disney and almost everything else is a chain. It's also horrible in a new sense.
I like some chains and don't hate the concept. But if given the choice, I choose to support a local option.
Mill Street is worthless to anyone with transportation. It USED to be a great street, just like Downtown Scottsdale USED to be a great area. I haven't visited either area for years because chain stores moved in and "cleaned it up". Why would I want to visit a chain store when I can get anything I wanted on line and without the hassle of parking?
.
I don't understand this comment. Mill is one of the most accessible destinations in the Phoenix Metro Area. It is situated right by the 202 Freeway. There is ample parking in several garages, where cars are sheltered from the sun rather than baking in huge surface lots. What's more, it's at the convergence of several bus routes and will be served by light rail, making it accessible by all types of transport -- not just the private car.
As for the chains, they're prevalent at the south end of Mill, but at the north end (300, 400 blocks), indies are still dominant. I'm a big online shopper, but Mill is about a walkable neighborhood -- something that can't be duplicated online or in a faux urban development like Tempe Marketplace. I don't go to Mill to buy things I could get online or at a big box store. I go there for restaurants, festivals, and other experiences that require face-to-face interaction.
Overall, I'd say that Mill is good but not great. Its two weaknesses are the following: 1) The City of Tempe's questionable decision to provide incentives to Tempe Marketplace. Incentives for retail are never a good idea, but they're particularly bad when they underwrite a sprawlish collection of chains at the expense of an established business district. 2) The demise of the local music scene. It used to be that you could walk along Mill and have a choice of live acts in different clubs. That's no longer the case, and it seems that one way Mill could remain competitive is by trying to lure live music back to the area.
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