How prevalent is this thinking in AZ? (Phoenix, Tucson: transplants, vehicle registration)

[artvandelay]

Originally Posted by DCTalk

You're probably right BuckeyeNative. It does seem that the blogs draw out the extremists. You have to question the mental state of some of the posters on the Republic and New Times sites. I'm sure AZ has it's small enclaves of white power types like every other state and immigrants make easy targets as the cause of society's ills. Hitler used the same arguments about the Jews. Same mentality.

My two cents: I have a Hispanic wife and in-laws, and we all suffer in some way because of their presence here: legal Hispanics are treated with disdain and lumped together with illegals, especially in the job pools. My brother-and-father in law have their wages driven down. As for me, I was here 10 days when my family was hit by a drunk illegal driver. Thank God my 6 month old son was OK. Do not judge the attitudes of people until you've experienced what they have.

These are the effects of a high illegal population. I have complete empathy for most illegal immigrants. After all, I would do what I had to in order to feed my family. I don't have hatred for them. I DO have hatred the the greedy, money-loving American system that seems to ALWAYS need an exploitable labor segment. But the fact remains, if someone is here illegally, and has an easy way out of the country, why obey all the laws? You already have nothing to lose. And how about when an illegal witnesses a crime or hits another car? They are out! And we've also had several cops killed by illegals during routine traffic stops.

I don't hate the desperate illegal immigrant, but I fear lots of desperate people around me, and hate the American economic system that invites them here, and ate the Mexican system that pushes them here.

[markas214]

Originally Posted by DCTalk

Let the fun begin.

So are you just trying to stir up controversy for your amusement? Illegals drive down wages, commit fraud with false IDs and consume public resources.

[ArizonaBear]

Originally Posted by DCTalk

As is my wont, I peruse various forums (fora?) and blogs on the Phoenix area and other locations I am interested in possibly retiring to. I have run across what I consider some disturbing elements in some of the AZ blogs. I realize border security issues are important in the Southwest, but there are some of the most virulent, hate-filled anti-immigrant rants I have ever seen on various Arizona blogs, including a few individuals on this site. It’s not that these individuals consider the influx of illegals a problem. They are literally seething with unreasoning hatred.

Now we all know there are ignorant, bigoted racists in every state, but one gets the impression from the blog sites that Arizona has a disproportionate number of them. Some of the ravings and droolings of these slack-jawed mouth-breathers make the Klan look like flaming liberals. Yes, I know that Arizona is a conservative state and that there still is some of that Old West 19th century mentality out there, but to what degree? How prevalent is this type of thinking among the general population? What proportion of the population is intolerant of anyone different than they are? Is it just the natives or is it the influx of new residents from out-of-state that also possess this type of thinking?

Let the fun begin.

Originally Posted by markas214

So are you just trying to stir up controversy for your amusement? Illegals drive down wages, commit fraud with false IDs and consume public resources.

OK: let me distill this down to the essence:

I am extremely prejudiced against illegal aliens------------irrespective of actual race/ethnicity. As a group; they are insolent criminals who need to dealt with harshly (within the law). As for those losers who knowingly employ 'em-------they need to be punished as well.

Legal immigrants (including 'brown' Mexicans, etc) I welcome to the USA

And; this coming from a Wash DC native (born and raised in that place).

[DCTalk]

AZBear, how do you tell the illegal from the legal by looking at them? Are all illegals engaged in criminal activity? On a percentage basis, no more than the natives are engaged in criminal activity. There are plenty of natives who drive uninsured cars, too. It's a matter of economics. Some people can't afford it. As to the argument illegals drive down wages--exactly how does a person who is ill-educated, lacking training and skills, and doesn't even speak the language a threat to your job? If so, you're virtually unemployable yourself.

People cross the border to escape a failed economy in their native country. Of course, the irony is we now have a failed economy, but it wasn't the illegals who caused it. It was the fat cats who rule Wall Street and the banking system who brought it down. I contend the anger is misplaced. Illegals are not the cause of all of the state's ills. They are the scapegoat. Yes, the lack of secure borders is a problem. The fact that Mexico has become a corrupt, failed, narco-state is a problem. You'd try to escape the place, too.

I live in an area that has a large Hispanic population. I don't doubt that a percentage of them are illegal. But there haven't been a disproportionate number of problems with them. Yes there are MS-13 gangs members within that population, but there are American gangs around, too. But that is a minority. Most are just people trying to make a better life for themselves and their families. And most Hispanics are very family oriented and church-going. They are not lying on the corner swilling Thunderbird.

[YAZ]

For what it's worth, I lived in the Detroit area for decades...."Mexicantown" in Motown is prob'ly the safest, cleanest part of the city.

[Greatday]

I know of no one who is "anti IMMIGRANT"

I know a BUNCH who ARE "anti ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION".

There is a significant difference.

[DCTalk]

But most of the "anti-illegal immigrant" crowd don't discriminate between legal and illegal immigrants because they can't differentiate them by sight. A Mexican is a Mexican to them and all are illegal till they produce papers to prove otherwise. And again, it's the hostility, anger and hatred displayed by this crowd that borders on unreasoning. Virtually none of them have ever been directly negatively impacted by any illegal, yet they perceive they have suffered some degradation in their life due to their presence. None of them can point to a job they've personally lost to an illegal. Most illegals pay Social Security and and all pay sales taxes and other taxes and fees just like everyone else. The purported social cost of illegals is exaggerated in their eyes to somehow equate to a burden they are personally bearing.

[BillyBaroo]

Originally Posted by DCTalk

But most of the "anti-illegal immigrant" crowd don't discriminate between legal and illegal immigrants because they can't differentiate them by sight. A Mexican is a Mexican to them and all are illegal till they produce papers to prove otherwise. And again, it's the hostility, anger and hatred displayed by this crowd that borders on unreasoning. Virtually none of them have ever been directly negatively impacted by any illegal, yet they perceive they have suffered some degradation in their life due to their presence. None of them can point to a job they've personally lost to an illegal. Most illegals pay Social Security and and all pay sales taxes and other taxes and fees just like everyone else. The purported social cost of illegals is exaggerated in their eyes to somehow equate to a burden they are personally bearing.

Did you know Cesar Chavez was part of that "anti-illegal immigrant" crowd?

Do you know why he was anti-illegal immigrant?

The American Conservative -- Cesar Chavez, Minuteman

In 1969, Chavez led a march to the Mexican border to protest illegal immigration. Joining him were Sen. Walter Mondale and Martin Luther King’s successor as head of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, Ralph Abernathy.

The UFW picketed INS offices to demand closure of the border. Chavez also finked on illegal alien scabs to la migra. Columnist Ruben Navarrette Jr. reported in the Arizona Republic, “Cesar Chavez, a labor leader intent on protecting union membership, was as effective a surrogate for the INS as ever existed. Indeed, Chavez and the United Farm Workers Union he headed routinely reported, to the INS, for deportation, suspected illegal immigrants who served as strikebreakers or refused to unionize.”

Like today’s Minutemen, UFW staffers under the command of Chavez’s brother Manuel patrolled the Arizona-Mexico border to keep out illegal aliens. Unlike the well-behaved Minutemen, however, Chavez’s boys sometimes beat up intruders.

[DCTalk]

It's not the people who oppose illegal immigration as such, it's the element that has an unreasoning anger and hatred toward illegals even though they can not point to one way personally that they have been harmed by them. One can only conclude that the real underlying reason for such hostility is racism.

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by DCTalk

It's not the people who oppose illegal immigration as such, it's the element that has an unreasoning anger and hatred toward illegals even though they can not point to one way personally that they have been harmed by them. One can only conclude that the real underlying reason for such hostility is racism.

Would you like the name and phone number of the 3 widows of Phoenix PD officers who were KILLED LAST YEAR BY ILLEGALS?? YOU WANT TO FIND OUT HOW THEY FEEL??? Have you the GUTS to find out????