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When "inertia" gets to be the reason you don't do anything, you will be a very unhappy camper here, there, and everywhere. I have a brother in law in Michigan. He has a pontoon in his backyard that, when I asked, he said he only used once last year. "too much hassle". He lives less than a mile from a good sized lake. He sits at home, drinks beer and complains that the mussels have ruined the fishing. We all fall in the trap.
I agree with this but I don't necessarily believe that it will be true here, there and everywhere. At least not at this point.
As discussed before, Ponderosa, family & work obligations remain no matter where you live and its up to the person to "make" time rather than blame their city or state, (or mussels for that matter), lol.
We have some family members in other states that are constantly on the go on the east coast. They have a boat docked at a marina rather than in their backyard and it was so easy to just drive to the marina and hop on board and go. Also they were like 15 minutes to a beach with RV camping right on the sand and they were out there almost every weekend in the summer.
When I left there, I actually said to myself when I get back to AZ, I'm gonna be the same way, but the challenges due to distance and realistic options were totally different. Yes, more excuses I know... but the balance of hassle to entertainment value here is a little lopsided for my taste, and I will claim that as my own issue.
The point is, people should realize when moving here that they need a personality that will overcome all obstacles, including heat and a fondness of long road trips to escape the city, or as you say they will not be a happy camper.
When things are close and accessible, however, you can decide if you get off work early that instead of plopping down to watch the 5:00 news and settle in for the night that you are going to hang out on the beach for a little or drive to the marina to take the boat out for a sunset cruise or quick fishing trip, but how likely are you to do that if it involves even a 1 hr drive, hours of prep or towing, unloading, reloading, cleaning and covering it all back up?
If a person considers Phoenix, I think its necessary to understand more enjoyable outdoor experiences are found outside the city, whereas Phoenix is primarily a place for jobs (not so much anymore though), restaurants, strip malls, golf courses, and sure a few mountains to hike here and there.
I agree with this but I don't necessarily believe that it will be true here, there and everywhere. At least not at this point.
As discussed before, Ponderosa, family & work obligations remain no matter where you live and its up to the person to "make" time rather than blame their city or state, (or mussels for that matter), lol.
We have some family members in other states that are constantly on the go on the east coast. They have a boat docked at a marina rather than in their backyard and it was so easy to just drive to the marina and hop on board and go. Also they were like 15 minutes to a beach with RV camping right on the sand and they were out there almost every weekend in the summer.
When I left there, I actually said to myself when I get back to AZ, I'm gonna be the same way, but the challenges due to distance and realistic options were totally different. Yes, more excuses I know... but the balance of hassle to entertainment value here is a little lopsided for my taste, and I will claim that as my own issue.
The point is, people should realize when moving here that they need a personality that will overcome all obstacles, including heat and a fondness of long road trips to escape the city, or as you say they will not be a happy camper.
When things are close and accessible, however, you can decide if you get off work early that instead of plopping down to watch the 5:00 news and settle in for the night that you are going to hang out on the beach for a little or drive to the marina to take the boat out for a sunset cruise or quick fishing trip, but how likely are you to do that if it involves even a 1 hr drive, hours of prep or towing, unloading, reloading, cleaning and covering it all back up?
If a person considers Phoenix, I think its necessary to understand more enjoyable outdoor experiences are found outside the city, whereas Phoenix is primarily a place for jobs (not so much anymore though), restaurants, strip malls, golf courses, and sure a few mountains to hike here and there.
Good points. The hiking here though is important to many and I don't know of any urban area that offers more opportunity a stone's throw from just about anywhere in the valley than here. Shoot, I could hike three different parks on my way home from work (many months). I don't do that. Most people I know don't either - they would rather go to LA Fitness or crash on the couch.
The boat thing is not impossible here though and that is quite remarkable for a desert city. If you had a boat in L. Pleasant Harbor, it's only a few minutes from some of the developments up that way. Heck I can get to L Pleasant in a hour or so from Estrella. It costs a king's ransom to keep a boat there in a wet slip though - over 300 a month for the cheap slips. I probably still would not use mine much if it were there. I would have to have a dock right below my house on a lake. I have some relatives who go boating every decent weekend in the summer in Wisconsin. They get to go maybe a half a dozen times in a year, so they really relish it. Here, we could go probably 40 or more weekends a year - not too hot and not too cold. We don't appreciate it. There is always next week, you know.
I think it also depends on what your "deal" is as a family. Our neighbors (who are originally from CA) love AZ. They have a boat and all the toys that go with it. Every chance they get, they are going to the lake for waterskiing, Flagstaff for snowboarding, you name it. They are never home especially when you factor in all their kids' sporting events--and yet always complain that they are so busy.
But that's not really our deal. We enjoy hiking and camping sometimes, but not all the time. We're more the, call some friends and invite them over, make a Costco run for some BBQ and play horseshoes and baseball in the yard type family. OR, when we're in southern CA we like to go check out a museum and then stop in Little Tokyo for lunch, or maybe spend half a day at Santa Anita Racetrack with some other families. We'll go to friends' BBQ's at the beach or at a park for someone's birthday party. Its just a different lifestyle that we've not been able to make work really well in AZ. I think you really have to be that hiking/camping/outdoors-y family before you move to AZ. You can't expect to just change who you are as a family because your old lifestyle isn't available.
I think it also depends on what your "deal" is as a family. Our neighbors (who are originally from CA) love AZ. They have a boat and all the toys that go with it. Every chance they get, they are going to the lake for waterskiing, Flagstaff for snowboarding, you name it. They are never home especially when you factor in all their kids' sporting events--and yet always complain that they are so busy.
But that's not really our deal. We enjoy hiking and camping sometimes, but not all the time. We're more the, call some friends and invite them over, make a Costco run for some BBQ and play horseshoes and baseball in the yard type family. OR, when we're in southern CA we like to go check out a museum and then stop in Little Tokyo for lunch, or maybe spend half a day at Santa Anita Racetrack with some other families. We'll go to friends' BBQ's at the beach or at a park for someone's birthday party. Its just a different lifestyle that we've not been able to make work really well in AZ. I think you really have to be that hiking/camping/outdoors-y family before you move to AZ. You can't expect to just change who you are as a family because your old lifestyle isn't available.
You make some great points. I do think, though, that many families can change and adapt to new surroundings. It may be easiest for southern Californians. PHX is sort of LA east. It helps if one really did not enjoy where they came from. If you liked the old country and all you come for is cheap housing, then it could be more of an issue. But it's probably a personal thing no matter the circumstances. You are fortunate to be able to return from whence you came so easily. Adaptation or misery are often the only two choices for the immigrant.
I think it also depends on what your "deal" is as a family. Our neighbors (who are originally from CA) love AZ. They have a boat and all the toys that go with it. Every chance they get, they are going to the lake for waterskiing, Flagstaff for snowboarding, you name it. They are never home especially when you factor in all their kids' sporting events--and yet always complain that they are so busy.
I have Cali neighbors who are exactly the same way. They have kids and all and still manage to be away constantly, boating, out in the RV. Every holiday its back to CA to visit grandma. We get stuck feeding their dog .
You make some great points. I do think, though, that many families can change and adapt to new surroundings. It may be easiest for southern Californians. PHX is sort of LA east. It helps if one really did not enjoy where they came from. If you liked the old country and all you come for is cheap housing, then it could be more of an issue. But it's probably a personal thing no matter the circumstances. You are fortunate to be able to return from whence you came so easily. Adaptation or misery are often the only two choices for the immigrant.
Ponderosa, you are totally right that we are blessed to be able to go back. Friends of ours would love to go back but can't until their home value goes up and even then it will that much more costly to buy back in CA. We are grateful for our flexibility. There are things that we do think are better in Arizona...we moved here with a pro list that included more than just a home at half the cost of our CA home. I think we're still amazed at how much less crowded it is in AZ though it does make you worry a little if your favorite restaurant is going to go under due to lack of patronage. But we had almost no "con" list for Arizona before moving here and now we are able to evaluate both sides with a more informed opinion.
But yes, we are very very thankful that we can move and understand that there are many who cannot. I think I floated back and forth between misery and adaptation during the last couple of years. I'd make a huge effort at adaptation and then burn out and go back into misery. But I think that because I knew in the back of my mind that there was a chance to go back, it sabotaged the adaptation to some degree.
Well why don't you guys tell 'em to get a pet sitter? There is another thread started by a guy named Scooby looking for work in that arena!
But Scooby probably won't take our or bring in my trashcan from the curb for free if I'm out of town. It may be a little lopsided but it works both ways. Besides, it allows us to get our dog fix without having to pick up dog poop every day of the year.
Well I am sure glad I read all of this about the Phx heat. It is so easy to crave the desert in the winter when you live in the Seattle area. For us it has been a choice between Boulder, CO and Scottsdale, Az. I think we lean towards Boulder. But we are aware of the days of extreme cold and snow there. Frankly Northern New Mexio would be a more moderate climate but the economy and crime there isn't looking good. Southern Calif. was a real hang up of mine for a long time but we have realized how hard it would be to migrate there with the current economy. So it came down to Boulder or Scottsdale. Now Boulder gets extreme cold spells but then in a few days it warms back up some. And they boast of 300 days of sunshine a year. Maybe we will stick with that plan afterall. I just don't know how we'd deal with the summer heat of Phx and the camping idea does seem unrealistic when I stop to think about it.
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Thanx
