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View Poll Results: Which do you prefer?
East Valley 124 69.27%
West Valley 55 30.73%
Voters: 179. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-30-2010, 02:27 PM
 
4,440 posts, read 8,398,551 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE View Post
I am sorry, I was refering to companies that produce not those that are government, Education, or some other non productive entity that although yes they provide a job they also have a cost associated with that job. IE Taxes. What amount of additional growth will ASU and U of A bring to the table? Do they create some thing that brings in value to the area other than educating people? Remember that state run education is a subsidized situation that has a cost associated with it to the tax payer. It doesn't generate cash flow such as a business or corporation.
The key benefit is creating higher education for the high tech workforce in the area, and if you know anything about economic development, you know that a highly educated high tech workforce is a major draw to high tech employers. And Chandler has a great reputation of bringing these kind of projects into fruition, unlike some areas where this would just be a pipe dream.

It's certainly better than what Surprise has to offer in the way of jobs, which is Wal Mart and a Waffle House, etc. You'll learn soon enough, when you actually live there.

And for those that think it's silly to argue this, I agree. My points have only been facts posted in response to Ponderosa's silly post. I didn't want to get involved in the debate, but when false information is posted, I want to clear it up. I know he/she was only responding to azriverfan, but since people reading these forums are considering relocating here and don't know the first thing about it, it's important to post FACTS once in a while rather than the mere opinion that it "seems quieter on the West side", etc. If someone prefers one side to another, that's fine, but the facts are, there are better schools, the University, better employment, better shopping, better dining and higher property values on the East side. Just facts.
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Old 03-30-2010, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Cypress, TX
587 posts, read 1,315,092 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asufan View Post
since people reading these forums are considering relocating here and don't know the first thing about it, it's important to post FACTS once in a while rather than the mere opinion that it "seems quieter on the West side", etc. If someone prefers one side to another, that's fine, but the facts are, there are better schools, the University, better employment, better shopping, better dining and higher property values on the East side. Just facts.
Well, to take it one step further then, the schools suck in ALL of Phoenix compared to most places in the country! They may be better in certain areas, but that doesn't make them good!

I'll put my Minnesota education up against ANY school in Phoenix any day.

Before we keep bragging about which side is better, let's always remember there's always someplace even better than that.
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Old 03-30-2010, 02:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intmd8r View Post
Well, to take it one step further then, the schools suck in ALL of Phoenix compared to most places in the country! They may be better in certain areas, but that doesn't make them good!

I'll put my Minnesota education up against ANY school in Phoenix any day.

Before we keep bragging about which side is better, let's always remember there's always someplace even better than that.
That may very well be the case, I don't know. I went to school in California, including Mission Viejo HS. Came to AZ for ASU (2 degrees), and my parents moved here as well. I don't know that the education is that much worse here, because I have no experience in it. I just know that all of the High Schools in my neck of the woods get a 10 out of 10 on greatschools, and typically have a lot better funding than many other districts. Chandler voters are constantly voting "Yes" on new school taxes, and the budget for youth sports out her is astronomical compared to some other parts of the valley. Maybe that's why the East Valley schools are routinely mopping the floor with teams from other areas.
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Old 03-30-2010, 03:16 PM
 
9,092 posts, read 17,950,115 times
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education isn't great here

this is a big side issue and I agree that we need better educators/education institutions to lure better students to fill high quality jobs

AZ doesn't have an undergraduate institution that ranks in the top 100 nationwide

it's best schools are an undergraduate flight school and a graduate school that draws for international business - both are phenominal in their fields - but fairly limited in overall benefit (as a side note both Thunderbird and Midwestern University are located in the western valley.....)

That isn't to say that you can't get a good education at any of the 3 major universities or any of the branch universities or private schools or that some of the graduate programs don't rank highly ........ it is a consideration though when this is a fairly isolated bit of geography and national reputation does play a factor

The phoenix metro as a whole benefits from all schools located here and companies will setup in the metro based on these universities and not really care what part of the metro said school is located in for the most part

Look at a place like philadelphia - you have employers in the burbs, in center city, etc .... they aren't setting up in university city next to 2 top 100 institutions, north philly next to temple, the main line next to villanova or st. joes or up near lasalle, widener, etc ..... they know they can draw on all of these students by just being in the metro area and will base their physical location on other attributes

also, it should be noted that litchfield park and goodyear have some of the highest median household incomes in the metro and that the Litchfield ESD is often ranked as one of the best in the state

there are always things better and things worse regardless of location

there is no utopia and splitting hairs over different parts of the same metro is kind of counterintuitive

most of the benefits and successes are the same and most of the challenges are the same - a cooperative way to better improve the entire metro (and the state) should be the focus instead of who has better access to Barneys or some other frivolity
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Old 03-30-2010, 03:45 PM
 
4,440 posts, read 8,398,551 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Laker View Post

AZ doesn't have an undergraduate institution that ranks in the top 100 nationwide
Maybe not for the institution as a whole, but ASU has many colleges that rank in the top 100 nationally, including the Business school which probably has more students than T-Bird and Midwestern combined. ASU's business school recently ranked #20 in the nation, and UA ranked #53. Plus, I know you were talking strictly undergrad, but ASU's MBA program that I am a graduate of has always been extremely highly ranked, probably also top 20 or around there. And the Barret Honors College is also highly regarded. I'm not positive, but I though UA as an institution cracked the top 100 in US News rankings recently, but I may be wrong. I would have no problem sending my son to any of the in-state Universities, as both my wife and I went to ASU and do just fine, but if he wants to rob my savings and go to a UC school, that's what will happen.

ASU and UA rank among top 100 biz schools
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Old 03-30-2010, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
35,948 posts, read 46,077,674 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asufan View Post
The key benefit is creating higher education for the high tech workforce in the area, and if you know anything about economic development, you know that a highly educated high tech workforce is a major draw to high tech employers. And Chandler has a great reputation of bringing these kind of projects into fruition, unlike some areas where this would just be a pipe dream.

It's certainly better than what Surprise has to offer in the way of jobs, which is Wal Mart and a Waffle House, etc. You'll learn soon enough, when you actually live there.

And for those that think it's silly to argue this, I agree. My points have only been facts posted in response to Ponderosa's silly post. I didn't want to get involved in the debate, but when false information is posted, I want to clear it up. I know he/she was only responding to azriverfan, but since people reading these forums are considering relocating here and don't know the first thing about it, it's important to post FACTS once in a while rather than the mere opinion that it "seems quieter on the West side", etc. If someone prefers one side to another, that's fine, but the facts are, there are better schools, the University, better employment, better shopping, better dining and higher property values on the East side. Just facts.
Saw in the Republic that 122,000 people were in Glendale over the weekend enjoying sporting events. What did you do in Chandler, go to the mall ? East side is falling behind. In a couple decades it will be like Palm Springs - full of old people and looking 40 years out of date.
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Old 03-30-2010, 04:15 PM
 
4,440 posts, read 8,398,551 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
Saw in the Republic that 122,000 people were in Glendale over the weekend enjoying sporting events. What did you do in Chandler, go to the mall ? East side is falling behind. In a couple decades it will be like Palm Springs - full of old people and looking 40 years out of date.
I'm not a wrestling fan and not a Paul McCartney fan. In the entire time it's been in existence, I have been to the stadium twice --- for the College Football National Championship and for the Fiesta Bowl. I'm an ASU football season ticket holder, and enjoy college sports far more than pro. I enjoy the tailgating, the pageantry and environment of college football. Nothing better than a college football saturday. I also follow ASU Baseball, basketball and even went to a couple softball games last year. I like the close proximity I have to all of that.

Most people that I know don't go to concerts, but if they do, it's once every 3-4 years. I think the last concert I went to was Metallica and Godsmack at AWA about 6-7 years ago, and before that it was Metallica in the 1990's. Since I am a Chargers fan, I go to a couple games a year in SD. When the Cardinals played 6 miles from my home in South Tempe, I went to one pre-season game the entire time. And to answer your question, I took my boy to swim lessons, then to Joe's Farm Grill, and then the next day we went to Chompies and then the park with the little train and kiddy carnival.

I know you're being a little facetious, Ponderosa. At least I think you are.
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Old 03-30-2010, 04:19 PM
 
9,092 posts, read 17,950,115 times
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the UT-Dallas rankings are interesting as it tracks how frequently faculty are published in highly thought of journals and ranks schools on that basis

it's a little bit different as it takes the faculty of the whole school where most rankings focus on just the graduate programs when it comes to individual colleges within a university

it still doesn't do much to distinguish who has access to those professors - are they teaching the 100 - 300 level classes that most undergrads will access, or are they there for advanced topics more often found at the graduate level .... the other component I would be interested in is the size of the faculty - some of these large state universities may be able to get more in because they simply have more people working towards it

If you have a 15 person faculty and and 90% get published 3X a year you'll be represented about 40 times .... if you have a 40 person faculty and half of them get published 2x a year you'll still be represented about 40 times

in 2009 businessweek had eller at 63 and carey at 73 on an undergraduate basis

compared to philadelphia you have wharton @ #3, Haub (st. joes) @ 57, LeBow (drexel) @ 68 and fox (temple) @ 99

Now I don't necessarily put a ton of stock into rankings at most levels - in many programs it can be important but the distinction starts to fade rapidly once you get outside the top 10-20

I don't think anyone is going to argue that #60 is heads and shoulders above #75 or that #110 isn't on the same plane as #90

USNews wants to make me pay for their undergraduate rankings for specific programs .... ASU on the whole came in at #121 and UA #102 for 2010

doesn't make them bad schools, but it does show that in AZ there isn't a clearly top level undergraduate school that gets people excited

I'd be more than willing to send one of my kids to any of the 3 public universities here - especially if they wanted to remain in state - there is a great network of alumni and those that work hard will always excel and rise to the top

I'm not trying to diminish what you can get from them while keeping in mind that there isn't a surefire educational draw in this state

it's all interesting to look at, but easy to either put too much stock into or dismiss to easily

I personally think this metro could use a wider variety of better schools - competition is good

however, there just aren't a ton of private schools getting endowed anymore and public education expansion comes at a cost so it's a difficult nut to crack

also, for what it does there are pretty much no schools in the world better than Thunderbird - regardless of enrollment

as an undergraduate insitution ASU enrolls like 90% of applicants and is the largest undergraduate institution in the US - doesn't mean I'd take it over other public universities like UC-Berkley, UNC-Chapel Hill, or UM - Ann Arbor
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Old 03-30-2010, 04:21 PM
 
Location: USA
3,966 posts, read 10,094,852 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
Saw in the Republic that 122,000 people were in Glendale over the weekend enjoying sporting events. What did you do in Chandler, go to the mall ? East side is falling behind. In a couple decades it will be like Palm Springs - full of old people and looking 40 years out of date.
I think the entire valley is outdated with its endless burb sprawl.

Tempe is the only place where I don't have to drive 10 miles to get to a grocery store like I live in the country.
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Old 03-30-2010, 04:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w1ngzer0 View Post
I think the entire valley is outdated with its endless burb sprawl.

Tempe is the only place where I don't have to drive 10 miles to get to a grocery store like I live in the country.

You just need a grocery store next to the dorms on the North side of campus like Manzy and PV. Hopefully that cosmo tower project is eventually built with the Whole Foods. IGA should have never closed.
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