relcoating to Pittsburgh and concerns (Denver, Mexico: condos, house, neighborhood)

[Hemingway]

You know, this is almost beginning to sound like sour grapes! When some young people with an idea and cash create an environment in an urban area that is MOSTLY geared at drawing more young people, the older crowd gets annoyed. The Southside is a great place, I've been there, I know young people that spend many Weekend nights there(they are not drunk college kids, but young professionals). It is geared toward drawing a young crowd! Do they worry about elementary and high schools? nope. They don't have kids! Do they worry about schools in Greenwich Village NYC or SoHo? nope! Most are young urban professionals, with a little bit of money, looking to spend time with other young professionals. It sounds to me like your fear of anybody under the age of 30 is at the root of this. Relax! Trendy and Hip have a place in Pittsburgh, too!

[Katarina Witt]

Hemingway:

It sounds to me like your fear of anybody under the age of 30 is at the root of this.

Are you a psychiatrist? If not, please do not analyze people. I am not "afraid" of people under thirty. In fact, both of my kids are under thirty! Any residential area, to be a complete "urban neighborhood" needs schools. It's part of the package. Young professionals become middle age professionals w/kids who then become old professionals. Surprise! No one stays young forever.

Here is a quote from another thread from someone planning to move to Pittsuburgh:

We have a 3 years old who goes to pre-school. We would like to continue with that. So, we need to be living near some good montessori/preschools

People just a few years older than college are concerned about these things.

[JoeP]

People just a few years older than college are concerned about these things.

Some are. Many are not and want to live in an urban environment. Not a neo-urban environment, but the real thing (and many are content with the neo projects as well, as it is a step more in community oriented walkable ideals etc)

I do not think my viewpoint is "skewed". I am tired of presenting my credentials for having an opinion on Pittsburgh. Suffice it to say I have had plenty of exposure to Pgh since 1980.

You've stated this before, but my comment was directed at your "Southside is hip?" comment. This comment suggests a couple things. One an unawareness of changes in the city and two, trends in urban living.

These are likely not neighborhoods that people live in much of their lives, only at certain stages in their lives.

A 20-30 something in the South Side or similar areas in other cities from Manhattan to small cities will probably want to live in the burbs with the nice schools when they start a family. Oh yeah and they want more space.

would agree in many cases. When I was a small child, we lived 2 blocks from a steel mill. Huge trucks drove up and down our residential street

That's not the case now. South Side wouldn’t be where it is today if the J&L were still around. Though living in industrial settings has its fans to (lofts). I wouldn’t want to live near a mill with loud trucks and everything else that it entails either.

The mill on the South Side is not only gone, but it has been replaced by a new urban development (so on the South Side, you can choose old or neo I suppose)

[Katarina Witt]

I will say this, regarding JoeP's incredulity that I do not find the South Side "hip". I was there, not just 30 years ago as a public health nurse, but two weeks ago. Even my brother, a staunch Pittsburgher, couldn't see the "hipness" two weeks ago this coming Sunday.

Re: changes in urban living, it hasn't changed as much as you may think. Most cities, including Pittsburgh, have always had chic areas in the city core, to live in. Think Squirrel Hill and Shadyside. I have family who lived in Sq. Hill for years, well into the 1970s. They thought my family should move to the city intead of living in an outpost like suburban Beaver Falls. DH and I lived in Denver in the early 80s. We would have stayed there if we could have found anything to buy that didn't need thousands of dollars of work.

My comment about living near a steel mill was meant to show that this "urban living" isn't all as idyllic as the urban planners want everyone to think. Actually, what the urban planners seem to envision is more like a New England or midwestern farm town in a city environment. Oh well, it keeps life interesting.

[JoeP]

I was there, not just 30 years ago as a public health nurse, but two weeks ago. Even my brother, a staunch Pittsburgher, couldn't see the "hipness" two weeks ago this coming Sunday.

Hip doesn't mean it has to be meant for you or that you even like what you see, but if you can't recognize what's happening in that area, then there's a very fundamental gap.

I don't say that to be offensive, just that if you can't recognize that, then it's no wonder that Pgh is essentially a wasteland to you.

My comment about living near a steel mill was meant to show that this "urban living" isn't all as idyllic as the urban planners want everyone to think.

That wasn't urban planning though.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by JoeP

Hip doesn't mean it has to be meant for you or that you even like what you see, but if you can't recognize what's happening in that area, then there's a very fundamental gap.

I don't say that to be offensive, just that if you can't recognize that, then it's no wonder that Pgh is essentially a wasteland to you.





That wasn't urban planning though.

No offense? It's pretty offensive (to me) to imply that I am either stupid or ignorant or both. I drove through the South Side. I saw a bunch of restaurants and bars. I saw the SS Works, with all its chain stores. I didn't see any upscale housing, and we drove around quite a bit. I saw a shut down high school. My brother also said "I don't get it". I asked my DH last night what he thought, and he agreed. He said "maybe we didn't see the right places, but no, it doesn't look hip to me". I know I can't convince you he (DH) is a disinterested party, but believe me, he is.

Living near a steel mill was urban planning. People walked to the mill to work. As I got older, things changed. People drove their cars to the mill, making even more traffic on our street.

That's what was happening on the South Side as well. People didn't have cars. They walked to work. They took the incline down the hill and then walked to work. That's what the urban planners want, for all of us to walk or take public transportation to work, to "live above the store", etc. They forget that some people have jobs that they might not want to want to walk to. Even here in the 'high tech' mecca, the factories are not in the residential neighborhoods.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by pittnurse70

I didn't see any upscale housing, and we drove around quite a bit..............He said "maybe we didn't see the right places, but no, it doesn't look hip to me".

But hip isn't upscale, pittnurse. Hip is starving artists, live music, etc. That's southside. You have to get out of your car and walk around. The stores are truly unique on Carson Street. And if you go at night, the streets are literally flooded with pedestrians walking from bar to bar to experience a wide variety of live music. Southside is hip. It's what Shadyside was years ago---back before Shadyside became upscale. That's what happens to art communities. The communites become cool and then the residential and retail property becomes so expensive that the very people who made it cool---the artists---are pushed out. So next time you're looking for hip, don't look for upscale.

[NewBurg]

Perfect, Hopes. I agree 100%.

[Katarina Witt]

I thought we were talking about housing, that the South Side was the new "in" place to live, that all these buildings were being "rehabbed", that it was being gentrified. I saw no evidence of that. I have said several times, maybe I was just in the wrong place, but we did cover quite a bit of territory that day.

[Hopes]

You have to get out of your car, pittnurse.

Originally Posted by pittnurse70

I thought we were talking about housing, that the South Side was the new "in" place to live, that all these buildings were being "rehabbed", that it was being gentrified..

The Southside is the new "in" place to live for "hip" people.

Many of the buildings are being rehabbed. They're brick buildings---the "rehabbing" is on the inside.

Check out these Southside lofts and apartments:

Angel's Arms Condominiums Pittsburgh The Residences

The following is what Angel Arms looks like from the outside:

Angel’s Arms Condominiums

You wouldn't have noticed that it was a hip place to live just driving by it.

Pittsburgh Lofts - South Side Lofts - Loft Pictures

Here's more lofts and apartments in Southside:

Beautiful 5 Bed 2 bath "Near Southside" (http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/apa/357255410.html - broken link)

Trendy South Side Loft Condo (http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/rfs/355904398.html - broken link)

Great House in the S.side Slopes (http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/rfs/356979429.html - broken link)

Southside Apartment (http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/apa/355109315.html - broken link)

Clearly, the interiors of these places are not in origional condition---they've been rehabbed inside.

Hey, look at what all of those dumpy houses you passed are worth:

Pittsburgh real estate — homes for sale — Trulia.com

Yep, people pay big bucks to live in an old two bedroom brick house in Southside. They could get the same thing for under 100k elsewhere in the city.

Originally Posted by pittnurse70

I saw no evidence of that. I have said several times, maybe I was just in the wrong place, but we did cover quite a bit of territory that day.

You weren't in the wrong place. You just didn't know what you were trying to find.