Is Pittsburgh in a good or bad geographic position? (rail, location)

[BrianTH]

I think the one that blows people's minds is that Pittsburgh and NYC are respectively about the same distance from DC. That's just not how the mental maps of most people work.

Anyway, I agree a HSR link would likely do a lot to change such perceptions. I also agree USAir didn't really do us a lot of favors with its pricing. Ultimately, though, I suspect there is something about moving off the coast that is going to be tough for some people to get past.

I've heard people say they made the drive to Toronto in about 5 hours. But most people I know of took longer because they made stops along the way.

[barneyg]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I've heard people say they made the drive to Toronto in about 5 hours. But most people I know of took longer because they made stops along the way.

Pittsburgh-Toronto is around 5 hours, perhaps a bit more, but that's without border backups and without traffic in the GTA. Based on my own experience, significant border backups in Buffalo or Niagara Falls are somewhat rare but traffic between Hamilton and Toronto can add up to 2 hours to total travel time.

[pman]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I think the one that blows people's minds is that Pittsburgh and NYC are respectively about the same distance from DC. That's just not how the mental maps of most people work.

Anyway, I agree a HSR link would likely do a lot to change such perceptions. I also agree USAir didn't really do us a lot of favors with its pricing. Ultimately, though, I suspect there is something about moving off the coast that is going to be tough for some people to get past.

I've heard people say they made the drive to Toronto in about 5 hours. But most people I know of took longer because they made stops along the way.

I definitely think people don't like to be too far from the coast. Truth be told, I think a lot of people think of the Great Lakes as lakes, just kind of big. It wasn't until I actually saw one that I understood just how big they are. sure, you don't get the salt air, but damn, you do get a breeze and it looks like the ocean. real HSR would also put the shore close enough for a three day weekend, though to me, I'd rather have direct flights to san juan for winter escapes than a week at the joisey shore.

[Johnny C]

I always find it interesting how people still claim that Pittsburgh is "isolated" from Philly by the mountains to the east. It's not like we are taking stagecoaches and teams of horses through some dirt mountain pass.

My method of overcoming the mountain obstacles involves setting the cruise control at 75 on the turnpike and steering through the tunnels. I occasionally adjust the radio and the climate control. The tolls are a bit oppressive, but that is a discussion for another thread.

I agree that a high speed rail would be key, as I would rather sleep on a train to philly and not worry about anything at all.

The truth of the matter is that the 'Burgh "is within 500 miles of 50% of the US population and less than a 90 minute flight from 50% of North America's population":

Pittsburgh Hotels, Attractions & Vacation Packages : Pittsburgh PA CVB

That is hardly a decription of an isolated area.

[Craziaskowboi]

Originally Posted by Mugatu

Yeah, I also find it odd that Pittsburghers seem to limit themselves in their vacation destinations. It seems like if they are driving, they often stay in state or close to it. And if they fly, they ALWAYS go to Florida or the Outer Banks. It's funny, when I hear someone at work is going on vacation, I joke and ask them "what part of Florida are you going to?" But 4 out 5 times, that's exactly where they are going. lol

In my 4 years since moving up here, I've visted Niagara Falls, Toronto, Detroit (for the auto show) and DC by car, all on 3 days weekends. NYC and Chicago are next on my list. Yet some of the people I work with that have lived here all their lives have never been to those cities.

I grew up in Florida where it's a good 7 or 8 hour drive to the nearest major out of state city, Atlanta. So I appreciate Pittsburgh's proximity to all these other great cities and don't find it isolated at all.

I've met plenty of people in Georgia who have never left the South. (This includes people in metro Atlanta too.)

[Katarina Witt]

I think the barrier of the mountains to the east is more historical and psychological than real. The Turnpike wasn't opened until 1940, and it wasn't totally completed from NJ to Ohio until 1954, well within the memory of some on this board.

One time DH and I drove across PA from Pgh to Philly, and when we got to about Lancaster, DH remarked on how different eastern PA is from western.

[Citypoot]

I actually forgot about Detroit and Toronto.

That makes TWELVE metros large enough to sustain a pro sports team in one of the big-4 sports, within 6 to 7 hours of Pittsburgh.

Again, how ridiculous is this thread? Pittsburgh is not only not isolated, it's one of the LEAST ISOLATED cities in the country, and if you doubt that, somebody take up the following challenge...

See how many cities you can name in North America, who can boast MORE than 12 cities within a 6 1/2 hour drive large enough to support a pro sports team in one of the major 4 sports.

I bet that is a much shorter list than most of you realize.

A better question is why do we have the FALSE REPUTATION of being isolated? And I have a very strong opinion on why that is.

I think it's because no major interstate passes through Pittsburgh...so you have to actually go out of your way to see Pittsburgh if you're driving through the area.

If Pittsburgh was located where Washington Pa is- right at the intersection of I-70 and I-79, travelers couldn't help but notice it. Columbus benefits from being right on a major interstate, so does Indy, so does DC, and on and on. The only reason to be on one of the Parkways, is to go to Pittsburgh. Otherwise you stay on I-79 to the west if traveling north and south, or you deviate to I-70 or I-80 if traveling east to west.

That's what I think it is: unless you've made a concerted effort to visit Pittsburgh, you drive through Western Pa without ever seeing it, so there's no psychological resonance for travelers passing through the area that are reminded how nearby it is.

[Geeo]

This has been mentioned here, but I wanted to say it again. The northeast and midwest have a huge concentration of big cities all in pretty close proximity. You can't swing How influential would Atlanta be if Miami, Tampa, New Orleans, Charlotte, Memphis, Nashville, and Washington were only a few hours' drive away? Here we have some of the biggest cities in the country all smooshed more or less within a few hours of each other, so it's no wonder that most of their spheres of influence are not that big (except for NY and Chicago). Atlanta and Miami are pretty much the only really big cities in the south, which is why they get most of the attention.

[BrianTH]

To help illustrate the point I am about to make, I think this map is helpful:



That is a 2000 population density map from the Census. If you identify Pittsburgh on the map, two interesting truths emerge:

(1) The immediate area around Pittsburgh, particularly in any direction but northwest toward Youngstown and Cleveland, is much less densely-populated than either the East Coast or the Great Lakes regions on either side. That low-density area around Pittsburgh is, of course, the northeastern part of Appalachia, and Pittsburgh is the only large population concentration in that region.

(2) But around this low-density area, in virtually every direction, there is a ring of relatively high-density areas--these are the various big metro areas we are discussing above.

So on to the point I was going to make: back when I first moved to Pittsburgh I used to do a lot of weekend roadtrips. To my friends and family who asked about Pittsburgh's location, I used to joke that the one of the benefits of being in the middle of nowhere is that somewhere is all around you.

And I think that remains the essential truth about Pittsburgh. Unlike cities on the East Coast or in the Great Lakes, the immediate area around Pittsburgh is in fact much more lightly populated. I think that fact helps to create a psychological sense of isolation out of proportion with mere distance. But that doesn't change the fact that once you get past this relatively sparse area around Pittsburgh, there are plenty of people all around.

So we are in fact a little apart--but not too far apart. And that complex truth can be tough for people who aren't familiar with Pittsburgh to grasp.

[creepsinc]

The best thing about Pittsburgh is that it feels isolated, but isn't actually isolated at all.