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Old 07-18-2010, 09:13 PM
 
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I don't know about you but I'm excited for what this could mean for the re-emerging of E Liberty....Could Google spur E Liberty back into the official 3rd major CBD of Pittsburgh?

Google's growth in city puts Pittsburgh in top tier of regional sites
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Old 07-18-2010, 09:46 PM
 
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I don't think this would have any real impact on the neighborhood.

I doubt that Google would have more than 300 employees in that office, and I doubt that any of them is going to live in East Liberty or even in the bakery square condos, if any are built. They would just commute from sq. hill/shadyside/elsewhere to East Liberty and leave in the evening.

All that Bakery Square would do is that it would slightly "push off" the bad areas in the same way that the new mall that extends Wholefoods simply created a safer strip into what used to be East Liberty. Bakery Square would slightly extend that safety strip into the area that is already slightly improved through Trader Joe's.

However, even if there is a decent strip on one side and if Penn Circle gets a little better, this would not have any impact on the bad areas of East Liberty or Homewood.

The whole comparison to Cambridge is silly. I lived in Cambridge and it does have a lot of tech companies, and is generally a desirable (and expensive area) to work and live thanks to students and a very good economy, great transportation, much bigger universities, etc. With the exception for some older housing, Cambridge doesn't suffer from urban blight the way that this area of Pittsburgh does. I would not feel safe walking at night near Bakery Square or sending my kids to school next door.

Also, transportation to East Liberty generally sucks. It is far enough from the highways, it is primarily accessible via Route 8 which is going to be messed up by 28, it is not bus-convenient to Sq. Hill (as you still need a trip through east liberty), etc. So folks are more likely to just drive in.

Fixing the problems with these neighborhoods is not going to be possible with one employer or another. The city and county need to do more.
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Old 07-18-2010, 10:59 PM
 
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East Liberty was already starting to take off, and I think the Google brand is powerful enough to help out.

Incidentally, I'm very puzzled by the comment about East Liberty transportation sucking. Yes, it isn't near a highway, but otherwise it is well-served by major roads and of course has an East Busway stop.
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Old 07-18-2010, 11:29 PM
 
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I'm not sure I agree that East Liberty is taking off. It's just that shadyside is taking over parts of it. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I don't think things got any better in the past two years for folks living there.

I know so many people like myself who go regularly to Trader Joe but but immediately lock the doors of the car as soon as they leave the lot.

I am still afraid of Penn Ave south from bakery square (towards homewood), and of everything across the train tracks to the north of the busway. I seriously doubt anyone working or shopping in Bakery Square would venture into these areas. It seems like there's a shooting almost every day within half a mile.

As for transportation, I'm not a big fan. You get a few buses (but not as many as you do in Oakland). Route 8 is the only fast way out of the city and with the new 28 project it's going to be a mess. Going to the east suburbs require trips through unpleasant areas. Downtown or I-279 requires taken Penn or taking Fifth (now that 28 will be closed) which are already fairly backed up.

I'm all for high-tech jobs in Pittsburgh and the growth that it brings, but I doubt that placing a small tech company near two of the biggest trouble spots in the city is going to make a difference. I don't see a flock of folks leaving SQ. Hill and Shadyside for real East Liberty.

Heck, there are enough places nearby where the streetview photography car would get carjacked or at least lose its tires.
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Old 07-18-2010, 11:34 PM
 
Location: Greensburg, PA
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I wonder if Google's growing presence might attract other players to the region, such as Microsoft. It would be interesting to see the East Liberty area become a "Silicon Valley" of sorts in the region.
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Old 07-19-2010, 05:11 AM
 
20,273 posts, read 32,915,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uricmu View Post
I'm not sure I agree that East Liberty is taking off. It's just that shadyside is taking over parts of it. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I don't think things got any better in the past two years for folks living there.
I think it is true that the pace of change slowed down recently due to the national recession (e.g., the URA once again had to restart the process of redeveloping the Highland Building), but things are still moving along: I believe they are now leasing out East Liberty Place North (the first phase of the new mixed-use complex at Penn and Beatty), they finalized the financing and are currently clearing and prepping the site for the new Target, the renovation/expansion of the Carnegie Library is moving along, they are in the process of restoring more of the two-way street grid, which will include streetscape improvements and the removal of the bus loop, and so on.

I'm not sure what it means to describe change in East Liberty as "Shadyside taking over parts of it". I think it is true that some of the new retail and restaurants and such serve people from Shadyside and people who might also go to Shadyside's commercial areas, but East Liberty was historically the main commercial district for the East End, so I see that more as East Liberty returning to its historic purpose than imitating Shadyside. And reconfiguring the streets, the new residential developments, the Target . . . I'm not really sure how those count as extensions of Shadyside.

Quote:
I know so many people like myself who go regularly to Trader Joe but but immediately lock the doors of the car as soon as they leave the lot. I am still afraid of Penn Ave south from bakery square (towards homewood), and of everything across the train tracks to the north of the busway. I seriously doubt anyone working or shopping in Bakery Square would venture into these areas. It seems like there's a shooting almost every day within half a mile.
This is precisely the sort of branding issue where Google can help. Attitudes toward neighborhoods in the Pittsburgh area often change slowly, regardless of the actual facts. Of course some people will still cling to attitudes formed many years ago, but I think the power of the Google brand can at least help contain that attitude to old-timers and keep it from spreading to newcomers.

By the way, living in Regent Square we have frequently driven Penn Avenue up from the south to go to Construction Junction, the zoo, East Liberty, and so on. In East Liberty, we have frequently gone to places on the other side of the Busway--the Home Depot, the library, the CVS, Kelly's, Abay, and so on. In all that time, we have remained remarkably unshot.

Quote:
As for transportation, I'm not a big fan. You get a few buses (but not as many as you do in Oakland).
I'm actually not sure there are fewer buses in East Liberty than Oakland, and of course Oakland isn't directly on the East Busway. East Liberty is basically right in the middle of the Busway, which makes it a quick ride both from Downtown and the residential neighborhoods served by the Busway to the south/east.

Quote:
Route 8 is the only fast way out of the city and with the new 28 project it's going to be a mess. Going to the east suburbs require trips through unpleasant areas. Downtown or I-279 requires taken Penn or taking Fifth (now that 28 will be closed) which are already fairly backed up.
Again the East Busway is the fastest way to Downtown, and you can also use it to commute from the east suburbs (hoping on one of the park and rides perhaps). Driving to Downtown, the fastest way is usually Baum-Bigelow, not Penn.

But generally, I don't think East Liberty is going to depend on connections to the suburbs. Again, historically it was the commercial center for the East End, and as a result it is connected more or less directly to almost all the major East End neighborhoods by artery streets (e.g., Highland, Negley, Stanton, Penn, Friendship, Centre, Baum, Ellsworth, Shady, Hamilton, Frankstown, Lincoln, and Larimer). It really sits at the center of a web of major streets.

Quote:
I don't see a flock of folks leaving SQ. Hill and Shadyside for real East Liberty.
I suspect your concept of "real East Liberty" is going to include less and less of the real East Liberty going forward. Anyway, people are already buying certain houses in East Liberty for a lot more than would once have been plausible, and similarly paying higher market rents for certain places. I suspect any new residential units in buildings like the Highland Building would also get snatched up. This is less a matter of folks leaving Squirrel Hill and Shadyside than those neighborhoods simply being very close to fully developed with very limited vacancies. And so as more and more new people are looking to live in the East End, people are redeveloping more and more areas that weren't on the list of "good neighborhoods" 10 or 15 years ago to supply that demand.

All this said, I agree East Liberty is still a work in progress. But it is already much, much different from when I first moved here in 1993, and there is lots of stuff going on as we speak, so despite the recession it has maintained a healthy amount of momentum.
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Old 07-19-2010, 05:30 AM
 
296 posts, read 558,836 times
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The redevelopment of the Nabisco factory helps East Liberty to the extent that it has people talking about the area and the perception that things are really picking up. However, I don't know if it is really considered "East Liberty" so much as a 'no man's land' in no centralized neighborhood.

I think that East Liberty has really already been 're-launched', at least for its business district. There is a lot of exciting construction & reconstruction going on there now around Penn & Baum. What would really help East Liberty the most is if they could do something with the area from Highland Ave west to Penn Circle where the fire station and McDonald's are. That area is full of surface parking, the grungy old police investigations building, and that 60s or 70stastic medical building.
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Old 07-19-2010, 05:56 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
1,776 posts, read 2,689,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uricmu View Post
I'm not sure I agree that East Liberty is taking off. It's just that shadyside is taking over parts of it. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I don't think things got any better in the past two years for folks living there.

I know so many people like myself who go regularly to Trader Joe but but immediately lock the doors of the car as soon as they leave the lot.

I am still afraid of Penn Ave south from bakery square (towards homewood), and of everything across the train tracks to the north of the busway. I seriously doubt anyone working or shopping in Bakery Square would venture into these areas. It seems like there's a shooting almost every day within half a mile.

As for transportation, I'm not a big fan. You get a few buses (but not as many as you do in Oakland). Route 8 is the only fast way out of the city and with the new 28 project it's going to be a mess. Going to the east suburbs require trips through unpleasant areas. Downtown or I-279 requires taken Penn or taking Fifth (now that 28 will be closed) which are already fairly backed up.

I'm all for high-tech jobs in Pittsburgh and the growth that it brings, but I doubt that placing a small tech company near two of the biggest trouble spots in the city is going to make a difference. I don't see a flock of folks leaving SQ. Hill and Shadyside for real East Liberty.

Heck, there are enough places nearby where the streetview photography car would get carjacked or at least lose its tires.
You sound like a pretty scared individual!
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Old 07-19-2010, 06:00 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
1,776 posts, read 2,689,344 times
Reputation: 1741
Quote:
Originally Posted by grimacista View Post
The redevelopment of the Nabisco factory helps East Liberty to the extent that it has people talking about the area and the perception that things are really picking up. However, I don't know if it is really considered "East Liberty" so much as a 'no man's land' in no centralized neighborhood.

I think that East Liberty has really already been 're-launched', at least for its business district. There is a lot of exciting construction & reconstruction going on there now around Penn & Baum. What would really help East Liberty the most is if they could do something with the area from Highland Ave west to Penn Circle where the fire station and McDonald's are. That area is full of surface parking, the grungy old police investigations building, and that 60s or 70stastic medical building.
I wonder how much an effect on development the re-organization of the street grid in E. Liberty is having (from the circle to two-way streets). If I were an investor, I'd probably be putting my plans on hold until the construction mess is over. Maybe there's a chance that whole section will boom once it's nearing completion? I mean, Target has basically pushed back their opening because of this reason.
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Old 07-19-2010, 06:03 AM
 
20,273 posts, read 32,915,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grimacista View Post
The redevelopment of the Nabisco factory helps East Liberty to the extent that it has people talking about the area and the perception that things are really picking up. However, I don't know if it is really considered "East Liberty" so much as a 'no man's land' in no centralized neighborhood.
Technically it is actually in Larimer! Anyway, I agree the impact is largely in the realm of general perceptions, with other stuff doing much more to actually change East Liberty itself. Still, that general perceptions stuff can matter.

Quote:
What would really help East Liberty the most is if they could do something with the area from Highland Ave west to Penn Circle where the fire station and McDonald's are. That area is full of surface parking, the grungy old police investigations building, and that 60s or 70stastic medical building.
Last I knew they wanted to reconfigure the streets and plan for some more residential in that area, but I get the sense it is currently taking a back seat to the "gateway" areas along Penn Avenue plus the "town center" plan centered on the church and Highland Building. I can see their logic--that other stuff will have a huge impact on the physical appearance of the neighborhood as people approach and pass through it--but I agree with you the core area will still seem rather unbalanced and transitional until that area is addressed.
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